2011-02-15 03:39:59Time to saddle up: "Gregson" posts another tome
John Hartz
John Hartz

As some of you are aware, The Ville, Glenn Tamblyn, and I have been engaged in a marothon slogging session on the comment thread to the article, "CR may slash EPA, W.H. energy office" posted (Feb 12) on Politico.com.


We are engaged in battle with at least three professional climate denier bloggers: gregson, Dahun, and hoplite. Please join in.

Here's hoplite's most recent tome (Post #343):

"When one considers that the theory of runaway AGW is based on computer models - data sets that extrapolate proxy data which can't be verified or offered up for objective scientific scrutiny -and temperature projections and graphs that fail to meet the rigors of accepted scientific method and statistical analysis, one has to wonder why the TAR and AR4 reports produced by the Working Groups of the UN IPCC have had mass defections of the very scientists that contributed to the UN-sponsored theory on Global Warming.

"I would truly like to see a computer model that can duplicate the variables and apply the correlations involved in measuring the effects of Thermal and Fluid Dynamics as they apply to Weather Fronts, Climate Conditions, Thermal Layers, Particulates, and our overall Environment. Just imagine trying to calculate the forces involved in swirling the rainbow patterns of marine exhaust on surface water. Take a paddle and pull it through the pattern and try to measure the effect - taking into account wind levels, atmospheric and surface conditions, barometric pressure, elevation, water temperature, particulates and the direction of existing currents. The randomness of all of these factors are enough to boggle the mind - but let's try to build a working computer model to duplicate the effect. The deviations alone will work to render the model and the data it produces outside workable variances.

"Michael Mann's Hockey Stick Graph, the darling of the Summary for Policy-Makers and Media in 2003 was not only based on very thin datasets, but it has been thoroughly discredited by the statistical work of Stephen McIntyre and Ross McKitrick in their book "Taken By Storm" and the entire graph subject to sanction by a 2005 Senate Hearing. This even before the E-Mails and the "Hide Decline" comments had come to light between the East Anglia CRU and Michael Mann during the Copenhagen 2009 UN Conference.

"Many of the Datasets being used by the UN's IPCC come straight from East Anglia's CRU, datasets that are now highly questionable, if not lost? or tainted by the biases of CRU's head Phil Jones. The American Research Unit at NOAH has similar problems with their data, while GISS's measuring stations have been shown by Anthony Watts online site to have huge Urban Heat Influences. And then we have a very thin, but integral set of Tree Ring Data obtained out Russia and used by Michael Mann, East Anglia and NOAH as a baseline to construct their temperature extrapolations.

"But despite all of this questionable activity - scientists disavowing the work of the UN’s IPCC - datasets that don’t measure up - computer models that are horribly flawed - the blatant manipulation of data to perpetuate a fraud and Billions of Taxpayers Dollars handed out like candy; we are told that CO2 is the hobgoblin of all Green-House Gases by the EPA - the defacto cause of all of our climate angst, and therefore, the sole candidate around which we can build a massive new Tax Levy on you, me and every Energy Consumer in America!!

"America must realize that in allowing vast bureaucracies to encumber our Industrial and Commercial production - we in effect give sanction to outsourcing our jobs and capital to competing nations; a strategy that is sure to undermine the economic and social foundations of the entire nation and ultimately diminish the prosperity that we endeavor to pass onto our children."

Note: Another one of hoplite's tomes is the subject of http://www.skepticalscience.com/thread.php?t=897&r=8

2011-02-15 04:08:15
Paul D


"When one considers that the theory of runaway AGW..."

What runaway AGW??



"America must realize that in allowing vast bureaucracies to encumber our Industrial and Commercial production - we in effect give sanction to outsourcing our jobs and capital to competing nations..."

The main cause of outsourcing jobs is global free markets and free flowing capital!
Americans are priced out of employment by cheaper labour elsewhere. There is nothing to stop an American company saying, hey it's to expensive in Texas, Indonesia and China look cheap, we'll go there. No bureacracy stopping the move.
Of course the US population could ask for lower wages, give up there car, live on company premises etc. That would bring costs down, then you might get the jobs back.

It is really disturbing when political ideology just rides over any common sense. One is in danger of falling into the trap of Godwins law.


2011-02-15 04:22:53The Ville
John Hartz
John Hartz

The entire Climate Denial Machine has been created and financed by political ideologs like the Koch brothers, Ruppert Murcoch, and others. They all worship at the altar of Ayn Rand.   

“All three tycoons (Ruppert Murdoch, David & Richard Koch) are the latest incarnation of what the historian Kim Phillips-Fein labeled “Invisible Hands” in her prescient 2009 book of that title: those corporate players who have financed the far right ever since the du Pont brothers spawned the American Liberty League in 1934 to bring down F.D.R. You can draw a straight line from the Liberty League’s crusade against the New Deal “socialism” of Social Security, the Securities and Exchange Commission and child labor laws to the John Birch Society-Barry Goldwater assault on J.F.K. and Medicare to the Koch-Murdoch-backed juggernaut against our “socialist” president.

"Only the fat cats change — not their methods and not their pet bugaboos (taxes, corporate regulation, organized labor, and government “handouts” to the poor, unemployed, ill and elderly). Even the sources of their fortunes remain fairly constant. Koch Industries began with oil in the 1930s and now also spews an array of industrial products, from Dixie cups to Lycra, not unlike DuPont’s portfolio of paint and plastics. Sometimes the biological DNA persists as well. The Koch brothers’ father, Fred, was among the select group chosen to serve on the Birch Society’s top governing body. In a recorded 1963 speech that survives in a University of Michigan archive, he can be heard warning of “a takeover” of America in which Communists would “infiltrate the highest offices of government in the U.S. until the president is a Communist, unknown to the rest of us.” That rant could be delivered as is at any Tea Party rally today."

Source: “The Billionaires Bankrolling the Tea Party,” Op-ed by Frank Rich, NY Times, Aug 28, 2010 http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/opinion/29rich.html

2011-02-15 06:07:48
Mark Richardson

Longer posts should only be done for fun/practice. Spending a lot of time on this isn't very efficient in terms of reach I don't think (how many people who aren't in denial read Politico comment threads?)...


Most of their canards are the same old things covered by SkepticalScience, RealClimate, Tamino and others. Might be worth writing up a few responses for copying and pasting into comment threads though. Including UBB and html versions.





Thanks for the laugh btw, this is a great quote:


  Dahun: Feb. 14, 2011 - 11:22 AM EST  

Electric vehicles are a joke.


An aircraft carrier is an electric vehicle.