2010-08-22 23:05:25What to focus our translation activities on?
BaerbelW

baerbel-for-350@email...
93.231.158.92

 

Hi Folks,

the current activities to create basic-level-rebuttals for the skeptic-arguments will have effects on our translation-efforts. We can now use this new forum to discuss various ideas of how best to go about the translations. To get us started, here is a thought which I recently had:

Should we perhaps from now on concentrate on translating the basic rebuttals as they become available and just refer folks to the intermediate (and later advanced) level written in English? I see the following advantages:

  • It would make the translations easier as they won't have as much technical lingo in them.
  • We should be able to get the translations out faster as the basic rebuttals are shorter
  • At a guess, the basic rebuttals won't change as often as the interdmediate (or advanced) level explanation, keeping maintenance to a minimum
  • By translating the basic-rebuttals we'd also have the translations for the corresponding blog-posts (or vice versa!)

 

Obviously, we'd have to decide what to do with the already created translations for the intermediate levels as it wouldn't make much sense to ignore them after all the work invested in creating them! Perhaps it is an option to also have the different levels for the translations?

So, what do you think we should do?

Cheers
Baerbel

2010-08-23 04:02:44
Ari Jokimäki

arijmaki@yahoo...
91.154.102.68
Every language translator team probably have their own unique situation. We Finnish translators just wanted articles on these denier claims. We realised that by translating articles John had already written would give us that with minimum effort. I think we'll continue with translating the intermediate level articles. Those are the most important ones because basic level articles don't have enough detail so I think we want the more detailed intermediate level articles out first. When we're finished with intermediate level, perhaps we'll then see if we do the other levels.
2010-08-23 04:56:26Who reads how much of the rebuttals?
BaerbelW

baerbel-for-350@email...
93.231.158.92

Hi Ari,

thanks for your feedback!

I've always been wondering how many people actually read the sometimes fairly long and involved rebuttals (regardless of language). Unfortunately, we don't have a means to really find out - unless this will become possible with the new 3-level-system where each tab basically has its own URL. It would be nice to know, how many hits the rebutalls and their respective translations get, wouldn't it? If only to reassure us that somebody is at least reading what we provide!

Cheers
Baerbel

2010-08-23 08:53:54stats on translations
John Cook

john@skepticalscience...
124.178.185.124

I only have the general web stats package that goes with the website but it is possible for me to program up some code that tracks visits to each translation, each language, to see traffic numbers.

Hopefully this forum can be a way that we can brainstorm ways that the translations can get more eyeballs - perhaps I can package up the translations in a way that makes them both more search engine friendly and people friendly.

2010-08-25 05:44:33Different priorities for different languages
pkm

p.kuipersmunneke@uu...
131.211.116.13

In the case of Dutch, I believe that those who can understand climate science at the intermediate level can also read English well enough to use the English part of the site. So the focus should be on the basic arguments. This situation may be very unlike other languages (French? no insult...) where the priority of translation depends on which audience you want to cater for first.

 

Cheers

Peter

 

2010-08-25 09:52:40Two different ways translations can go
John Cook

john@skepticalscience...
124.187.125.135

To all translators, I propose there are two ways we can go with the way translations work from now on:

  1. Keep the system as it is now, with just one translation per skeptic argument. It's up to the translator whether they want to translate the Basic or Intermediate version
  2. Have multi-level translations. Eg - the translator can choose to translate either Basic or Intermediate or both. If there's only one level translated, the system will show just that translation (with the basic version displayed by default). If more than one, it will show tabs.

If everyone could provide feedback, that would be much appreciated. The more I think about it, the more option 2 is a bit of a no-brainer as it gives you the option to do a single or multiple translations - it encapsulates option 1 and then gives the flexibility to add more if you want. But welcome thoughts.

2010-08-25 11:12:49I'd go with 2
werecow

blauwebril@gmail...
95.36.46.175

I can see Peter's point about English literacy over here, but I don't think the translations should be restricted to just the basic level. I can see the value in their brevity, but at the same time they don't deliver a lot of info. And I do know a few people who are fairly smart but just not great at English. They can read it, but they may miss some of the subtleties. So I think it's probably best to start with the basic versions as Peter said, and simply do the more advanced ones later. I'd keep that option open, if it's not too much trouble (e.g. option 2).

 

But then, I'm kind of in translation slacking mode right now due to a variety of circumstances, so maybe others have more of a right to speak on this issue than I do. }|:op

2010-08-25 15:28:15Option 2 sounds good
BaerbelW

baerbel-for-350@email...
93.231.141.209

Hi Folks,

my vote is for option 2 as it has the greatest flexibility and as it also makes the look-and-feel of the translated rebutalls identical to that of the original rebutalls (which I think is more user-friendly).

The other advantage is, that more people will be able to help with the translations of the basic rebuttals as they don't contain much technical lingo. A side-effect of that is that different translators might need to be involved for any given rebuttal (eg. one does the basic and another one the intermediate ones).

Cheers
Baerbel

2010-08-25 20:51:28some random thoughts (well, not *that* random) :P
DarkSkywise

dark_skywise@hotmail...
212.83.74.80

Most languages still have some 100 rebuttals to go. Triple that, and we'll NEVER get finished. :'(

Having partaken in many, many climate discussions on Teh Dutch Interwebs, I keep my translations at a "slightly below intermediate" level with lots of Wiki-links for the technical lingo, because I've found those to be the most effective. I'm not sure "Basic" would work at all in Dutch... Dutch people want stuff to be specific, so they won't have to ask "Yes, but what's this? And why is that?" and before you know, you're already closer to Intermediate than to Basic.

Anymoo, my preference would be John's "if there's only one level translated, the system will show just that translation (with the basic version displayed by default). If more than one, it will show tabs" but with Intermediate as default.

Another approach would be to have a "questions, comments & answers" section for each translated rebuttal, just like in the English versions, with the translators as moderators. If something is too difficult, readers can ask, if they need even more specific stuff, readers can ask too.

Since non-English speaking readers are a minority here, I think this would be more effective. (I like the idea of hit counters, though.)

2010-08-25 21:17:34...and already off topic:
DarkSkywise

dark_skywise@hotmail...
212.83.74.80

PS @ John:

Are we only allowed to (quote) discuss issues of translating the rebuttals or other material into non-English languages (unquote) in here or can we "hang out" & blow off steam too?

I'm sure we all have stuff to share with other translators that shouldn't be on the main site. (I, for one, would like a "Who's Who" thread, so we can get to know each other a bit better.)

PS2: comment sections for translated rebuttals (see previous post) should also include a "Recent comments in your language" link next to the "Recent comments (in English)" link. Mixing English and non-English comments would be quite confusing :P and TransMods (yes, I've just made up a word :D ) should be able to see at a single glance if new comments in their language are added.

2010-08-25 21:36:01Off-topic vs. On-topic
BaerbelW

baerbel-for-350@email...
109.85.5.228

Hi DarkSkywise,

I also think that it would be neat if we had a thread where we can introduce ourselves and I'm fairly certain that John won't mind if we created a thread for just that purpose (John, please correct me if I'm wrong!). The only thing which I think none of us can currently do is to mark it as a sticky so that it always shows up as one of the first threads in the forum.

Likewise, we can create new threads to discuss other suggestions or to "blow off steam". I think I'll for example create a tread where we can exchange ideas and information about things like translated material or stuff we are putting together in our various languages. This might then be used and adapted by others. I'm currently putting together a climate-quiz (in German) but also have a rough translation available which could be a starting point for others interested in creating something like that. I'm also working on a German powerpoint version of James Powell's "Is climate change true?" video.

I think that we can leverage the translators-forum to adapt our "messages" not just to the different languages but also to the different mentalities.

Cheers
Baerbel

2010-08-25 23:41:36
werecow

blauwebril@gmail...
95.36.46.175

@DarkSkywise: Don't cry now. }|:op

I hope to have a bit more time not too long from now. I think between the three of us we can make a dent. As this is a moving target, we'd never actually "finish" anyway.

2010-08-26 05:08:25
Alexandre

tiburcio43@gmail...
201.43.238.199

Hi people,

 

For now, the Portuguese translator team is just me. I reached my own goal of translating the top ten arguments, and I'd like to have some information to focus future work. It would be nice to know what's being read, or even wether it is being read.

 

Would it be feasible to have a visit counter of some kind on these pages? Or maybe some link with our email addresses where people could give us some feedback?

2010-08-26 12:05:08Introduction thread
John Cook

john@skepticalscience...
124.187.125.135

Great idea to start a new thread for the translators to all get to know each other, please do! First one to start the thread gets dibs :-)

To everyone, when I revamp the translation system to include multiple levels, I'll also program in some kind of hit counter.

2010-08-28 00:37:50Baa. (In-joke with Bärb, sorry.)
DarkSkywise

dark_skywise@hotmail...
212.83.74.80

Why would you want Baerbel to get dibs? It makes your face swell up and it's highly contagious and she's far too nice for that! *confused look*

:P

Meanwhile, we'll still need more translators in here to build a real translator community. YOO-HOO! OVER HERE! *waves loudly* READ JOHN'S MAIL PLZ!!

(Usually, I'd make a large bonfire to attract attention, but that wouldn't be CO2 neutral.) ;-)

2010-08-29 20:28:49Language-dependent comments
BaerbelW

baerbel-for-350@email...
93.231.137.101

I think that it would be helpful if the translated arguments had the option to add comments in the relevant language. That way people could ask a question in their own language which could be answered by the tranlsators. Comments are preferable to an emailing-option in order to make this visible to all (and to prevent the translators getting "harrassed" via email). The translators for a language would also need to fill the moderator-role for those comments.

Cheers
Baerbel

P.S.: @Jeroen - thanks for your concern but I don't think that virtual dibs have any side-effects! Moo!/Baa!