2012-02-06 08:10:14Moderating the Facebook Page
BaerbelW

baerbel-for-350@email...
93.231.138.226

As John is now adding people as admins for the SkS-Facebook site I thought, that it might help to have a dedicated thread about any activity taken (or not taken). If this thread seems like a good idea, it could perhaps be added to the sticky ones on top of the moderator's forum.

As I mentioned to John via email and in some related postings/threads in the forums, I'll be  starting my vacation tomorrow, so won't be able really get the moderating of the SkS-Facebook page started. Once I'm back I'll be able to help, though.

UPDATE FROM JC: I'm hijacking Baerbel's post to list here all the Facebook mods:

  • John Hartz
  • Daniel Bailey
  • Anne-Marie Blackburn
  • Alexander Coulter
  • Robert Way
  • Baerbel Winkler
  • John Cook
  • Trevor Murdock (he set up the FB page in the first place)

Anyone else wants to be a mod, let me know (probably email me jc@sks.to if you want a quick response)

2012-02-06 10:23:32
Alex C

coultera@umich...
67.194.36.158

There are specific users who are a problem.

Joseph Dance
Marc Frazer
Marc Facer
Brenton Roberts
Global Warming is Crap (this is the Hitler picture guy)

The two big ones are the Marcs, followed by Brenton, GWIC, and Joseph (Joseph seems to have cooled a bit, but I need to pay closer attention as I haven't in a while).  We can block them outright if we choose.

We can also choose to ban people from posting on the wall.  This is a rather extreme choice to make, and I would recommend we implement selective moderation first to see if that helps.

Do we want to post a message to the board saying that spammers will be cracked down on? 

2012-02-06 10:57:01
Daniel Bailey
Daniel Bailey
yooper49855@hotmail...
97.83.150.37

There is also Cole Pritchard (sp?), a longtime denier troll.

As for a warning, perhaps something like this:

Please note that posting comments here at the Skeptical Science Facebook page is a privilege, not a right.  This privilege can and will be rescinded if the posting individual submits offensive, off-topic posts or intentionally misleading comments and graphics or simply make things up. We really appreciate people's cooperation in abiding by these conditions, which are the mandatory condition of participating in this online forum.

Finally, please understand that these moderation policies are not open for discussion.  If you find yourself incapable of abiding by these common set of rules that everyone else observes, then a change of venues is in the offing.

Please take the time to ensure all comments are in full compliance with it.  Thanks for your understanding and compliance in this matter, as no further warnings shall be given.

2012-02-06 10:58:23
Daniel Bailey
Daniel Bailey
yooper49855@hotmail...
97.83.150.37

By the way, Joseph is very much a racist prick.  He was the one initially defending the Hitler pic and has made several racial and ethnic slurs.

2012-02-06 12:10:31
John Hartz
John Hartz
john.hartz@hotmail...
98.122.98.161

I recommend banning the lot and deleting all of their prior posts.

2012-02-06 12:18:41
Alex C

coultera@umich...
67.194.36.158

Some posts from Joseph, for instance, are appearing darker than other posts of his.  Does that mean that they have been deleted or otherwise removed somehow from public view?

2012-02-06 12:42:05
Daniel Bailey
Daniel Bailey
yooper49855@hotmail...
97.83.150.37

Alex:  I have no idea.

2012-02-06 12:56:24Two new mods added
John Cook

john@skepticalscience...
130.102.158.12

John Hartz and Daniel Bailey are now also FB mods.

2012-02-06 12:58:55Facebook policy
John Cook

john@skepticalscience...
130.102.158.12

Before we go willy nilly with deletion and banning, I suggest we come to a consensus on how to approach Facebook moderation.

I don't think we necessarily have to keep every dissenting voice off the FB page - which will lead to us being labelled draconian. But its a different set up to the SkS website where we set the agenda - on FB, anyone can start a new post. So we will need a different policy. Something that fosters a constructive environment but doesn't make us vulnerable to attacks of draconian moderating.

Discuss :-)

2012-02-06 13:07:27
Daniel Bailey
Daniel Bailey
yooper49855@hotmail...
97.83.150.37

John, agreed.  I suggest preliminarily:

I'm not in favor of stifling dissent.  Note that it is constructed much more liberally than the SkS Comments Policy & the Standard Warnings.  But it gives moderators more freedom of interpetation to use their best judgement as to what constitutes trolling of offensive material.

How I would implement it is when people demonstrate beyond a reasonable degree of certainty that their intent is to spam or waste the time of others, then their comment gets excised.  If they continue that course of action, they get excised.  But no warnings need be given.

Thoughts?

2012-02-06 14:44:04
John Hartz
John Hartz
john.hartz@hotmail...
98.122.98.161

I concur with Yooper's recommended course of action. We will, however, need a couple of more administrators -- preferrably from Down Under or NZ -- time zone coverage.

2012-02-06 14:52:57
Alex C

coultera@umich...
67.194.36.158

Perhaps - I'm on Facebook fairly frequently and can provide a wide bit of coverage in the meantime.

2012-02-06 14:53:26
Alex C

coultera@umich...
67.194.36.158

I also agree with Daniel's course of action too.  I see that action has already been taken toward Joseph.

2012-02-06 15:02:38
Daniel Bailey
Daniel Bailey
yooper49855@hotmail...
97.83.150.37

I was selectively weeding out some of the most stupid, obnoxious & vitriolic stuff; Joe noticed & pitched a fit.  In the process of deleting his idiotic comeback I dragged the cursor across the moderation dialogue box and accidentally banned him as well as deleting that current comment he made.

Oops.  Lesson learned.  No "Undo" function on FB.  No "Deleted Comments" bin to recover from.

2012-02-06 15:09:47
Alex C

coultera@umich...
67.194.36.158

Actually there is a way. Want me to fix it?

2012-02-06 15:22:47
Daniel Bailey
Daniel Bailey
yooper49855@hotmail...
97.83.150.37

Let's get some kind of quorum on specific, immediate actions & implement some form of a moderation statement first.

2012-02-07 01:40:32
John Hartz
John Hartz
john.hartz@hotmail...
98.122.98.161

Yooper,

How about posting a "No Trash Talk Allowed " sign?

Now that the Sherrif (Yooper) and his posse have rode into town, Breton Roberts* has created the FB page, "Tracking SkS Censorship: UNSkeptical Science Censorship." Click here to access.

What a hoot!

*Roberts is one of the climate denier drones who has herertofore been spreading poppycock on our FB site with impunity.

 

2012-02-07 02:37:23
Daniel Bailey
Daniel Bailey
yooper49855@hotmail...
24.213.18.68

In the interim, pending a quorum resolution, I've posted the following comment:

Just as a General Note, management has added moderation capabilities to the Skeptical Science Facebook page.  The details and strictures are still being finalized, but in the interim, here is a working set of parameters and guidelines for all to observe:

“Please note that posting comments here at the Skeptical Science Facebook page is a privilege, not a right.  This privilege can and WILL BE rescinded if the posting individual submits offensive, off-topic posts or intentionally misleading comments and graphics or simply make things up. Behaviour that consists of posting comments that amounts to little more than saying “No it’s not!” will be moderated at managements discretion.  Posting under multiple screen names on the same threads is considered poor internet etiquette; moderation of said comments may then result.

We really appreciate people's cooperation in abiding by these conditions, which are the mandatory condition of participating in this online forum.

Finally, please understand that these moderation policies ARE NOT OPEN FOR DISCUSSION.  If you find yourself incapable of abiding by these common set of rules that everyone else observes, then a change of venues IS in the offing.

Please take the time to ensure all comments are in full compliance with it.  Thanks for your understanding and compliance in this matter, as no further warnings shall be given.”

2012-02-07 03:00:08
Alex C

coultera@umich...
67.194.36.158

Make sure that when you delete any posts you give some sort of message saying what you did, and why you did it.  I don't want that fucker getting the attention of people like Watts and us having nothing to back it up with.  Take screenshots of some of the more egregious examples, too.

2012-02-07 03:09:33
Alex C

coultera@umich...
67.194.36.158

A question, when we implement moderation, do you want to do so with names as well?  For instance, when we moderate in the comments section on blog posts, either [DB] or some other name is given, to notify the person being responded to who is addressing them.  Same on Facebook, or no?

2012-02-07 03:09:54
Daniel Bailey
Daniel Bailey
yooper49855@hotmail...
24.213.18.68

Alex, I don't think it necessary to document the deletion of outright nonsense.  Anything banishment-worthy, yes, by all meas let's post a copy here.  We could spend all day documenting the nonsense & gibberish and we'd get nothing else done (spammers intent on derailing a thread will still have the field).

If the comment consists of nothing but "No I didn't" or "No it's not" or complains about moderation, then just delete it.  The fake-skeptics are in it for the attention & to delight in their painting of graffitti on the walls of the SkS FB page, nothing more.  They hate it when their crap just gets shoved into the garbage can.

They will lose interest after a while and go elsewhere.  Or they will conform. 

Even Brenton just apologized for his (intentionally) misconstruing something.

2012-02-07 03:12:09
Daniel Bailey
Daniel Bailey
yooper49855@hotmail...
24.213.18.68

Unless others feel differently, I don't feel it necessary to individualize our comments.  That way we present a united, seamless front.  As long as we are all on the same page of the same playbook, everything will be fine.

If we individualize our responses, then that will just feed into the spammers, whipping them up into a frenzy.  Some of them are stalking-psycho's-waiting-to-stalk.

2012-02-07 04:42:45
John Hartz
John Hartz
john.hartz@hotmail...
98.122.98.161

Yooper,

We need to always employ the KISS principle. I concur with your plan of action.

PS -Anyone designated as an "Administrator" looses his/her individual identity when posting on the SkS FB page.

PS2 - I could give a rat's arse about how we manage the SkS FB site plays in Deniersville.  

2012-02-07 13:50:12
Daniel Bailey
Daniel Bailey
yooper49855@hotmail...
97.83.150.37

Anyone else have anything to offer?

BTW, I'm done posting on the FB page under my own name (have I said before how much I hate FB?)...

2012-02-07 13:58:10
Tom Curtis

t.r.curtis@gmail...
112.213.149.122

Yooper, I'm with you there.  I had a facebook account once, but closed it when I discovered my sisters birthday greetings to me, 3mnths after the event.   I aint touching the place again, so no help from me.

2012-02-07 14:24:41
Daniel Bailey
Daniel Bailey
yooper49855@hotmail...
97.83.150.37

Tom, thanks for sharing your thoughts (I truly sympathize...).  

Actually, I was soliciting input & thoughts, not actions.  As of now we have 8 individuals signed up to moderate the FB page.  Judging by the initial response to the preliminary posting guidelines (denier comments fell off the proverbial cliff) that may be enough for now. 

But not only those with moderator status for the FB page are stakeholders but every member of the SkS Forum is a stakeholder.  So I'm asking for feedback from anyone caring to venture an opinion.  Having read this thread thus far, do you:

  • approve of the proposed course of action
  • approve of the suggested guidelines (loopholes exist that need closing, as a denier poster has just made us aware)
  • any changes to the above you'd like to see made
  • anything we've left out, omitted or just plain overlooked

That's my 2.3 cents (inflation).

2012-02-07 15:18:22
Rob Painting
Rob
paintingskeri@vodafone.co...
118.93.96.152

Yooper, you always do a sterling job, so whatever you deem best in moderating FB is fine by me. 

2012-02-07 15:19:07
Tom Curtis

t.r.curtis@gmail...
112.213.149.122

Yooper, the fact that denier comments fell of a cliff shows you have it in hand.  Without reading the comments on FB, which I cannot do without signing up (which I will not do), I can't add anything more.

2012-02-07 15:43:40
Daniel Bailey
Daniel Bailey
yooper49855@hotmail...
97.83.150.37

As an FYI, I just banned Brenton.  After removing yet another comment filled with incessant bitching about moderation I cam across still one more constructed likewise, but with a lot of all-caps bitching.  That was the last straw for me. 

I know we haven't offically made a quorum decision on Marc/Marc, Josep and Brenton, so I apologize if any feel this was out of line.  Any who wish can peruse many of the hundreds of comments each has made on the FB page which all would have warranted moderation, deletion or banishment.

2012-02-07 15:45:22
Daniel Bailey
Daniel Bailey
yooper49855@hotmail...
97.83.150.37

Oh, I earlier bagged the Global Warming Is Crap poster.  That was the one with the Hitler avatar; I and several others had reported it to FB as a violation to be looked into.

2012-02-07 17:20:53
Alex C

coultera@umich...
67.194.36.189

Daniel, others - I think that we should develop a base set of rules for types of posts allowed, or transfer the moderation policy from the blog to the FB page.

I also think that after a short interim, we should let Brenton back in.  While he did complain about moderation, I don't think that should be a banning offense, but warranted of a stern warning.  I will let him back by tomorrow night (~EST) by default either way, this will be a "timeout" ban (as our dearest friend Stephanie phrased it), and I will make an announcement about letting him back on.  If we could have a set idea on how moderation will work by then, that would be great.

For responses to people as warnings, I think shorter responses than the one you previously suggested would work fine.  I think your opening paragraph works quite fine, with a small cross-out:

"Please note that posting comments here at the Skeptical Science Facebook page is a privilege, not a right. This privilege can and will be rescinded if the posting individual submits offensive, off-topic posts or intentionally misleading comments and graphics or simply make things up. We really appreciate people's cooperation in abiding by these conditions, which are the mandatory condition of participating in this online forum."

Just because that seems like something some might interpret as being too draconian (as in, "those warmists just want to block all dissenting views!").  I think that tailored posts in response to users just posting crap would be good.

Regarding simple posts, we should show discretion in how we address those, yet they don't seem to be a problem yet when it comes to moderation.  Make sure to make the distinction between stupid one-liners, and simple posts that might actually help to carry some conversation.

 

Anywyas, if more want to comment, please do so we can get this finalized.

2012-02-07 17:59:14
Alex C

coultera@umich...
67.194.36.189

Another thing: handling comments that are in response to hidden/deleted comments.  Hide them too?  As I understand it, that is our policy here too.

2012-02-07 19:36:54
Alex C

coultera@umich...
67.194.36.189

Ugh - can someone please watch over the page until I can get up in the morning?  I need sleep, and don't want the two that are going at it right now to asplode all over the wall...

2012-02-07 20:34:24
Ari Jokimäki

arijmaki@yahoo...
192.100.112.203

What is SkS facebook page for, just a discussion forum instead of information channel? For example, our own blog posts don't seem to get announced there. It seems to me that the facebook page actually is very little about Skeptical Science website.

2012-02-08 00:04:10
Alex C

coultera@umich...
67.194.36.189

I have been trying to figure out how to get Facebook to automaticlaly update with our blog posts, it's been a pain since every how-to online seems to be for an iteration of Facebook that no longer exists.  I can start updating it like I do the Twitter account, that would actually be very easy.

2012-02-08 06:23:15
Ari Jokimäki

arijmaki@yahoo...
91.154.97.114

Facebook updates are very easy, all you need to do is give the link to the page your announcing. I have gotten Facebook to automatically update my blog posts from our Finnish blog but that needs to be set up from the Wordpress also so it seems that you might have to have both ends co-operating in the update.

2012-02-08 16:40:32
Alex C

coultera@umich...
67.194.46.225

I have published an update to Facebook about the comments policy we will be implementing - to keep things smooth from the blog to the page, much of it is based off of the comments policy that is currently being implemented here.  I have detailed everything in the Description section for our page.

Also, I have let Brenton Roberts back onto the page.  Considering his past behavior on the page, there will be no second chances, and if he decides to break our commenting policy he shall be permanently banned.

FWIW, it may not be known by some how to unban people.  For the admins for the page, if you go up and click on the "Likes" icon in the upper left hand corner, the list that shows up in part can be expanded to See All - click on that.  From there, the list can be sorted with the drop-down menu in the window that pops up, and banned users can be sorted out.  There is an option to unban people from that page.