2011-09-30 01:34:49Should SkS create a new website foucsed exclusively on Ocean Acidification?
John Hartz
John Hartz
john.hartz@hotmail...
98.122.98.161

I believe a strong argument can be made for SkS to create a separate website focused exclusively on ocean aciidification. As things now stand, ocean acidification is buried amongst the mountain of the materiels being generated about climate change science. As they say, ocean acidification is climate change's evidl twin.

Although I have been mulling this over for quite some time, the straw that broke the camel's back and prompted this post is the ScienceDaily article, "Study Uncovers a Predictable Sequence Toward Coral Reef Collapse."  

2011-09-30 01:39:48
Paul D

chillcast@googlemail...
82.18.130.183

John Cooks boss already has a blog/site that covers that subject.

http://www.climateshifts.org/

2011-09-30 01:46:59
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
84.151.44.222

Why?

2011-09-30 15:20:35Second front
alan_marshall

alan.from.tas@gmail...
114.73.135.51

I don’t know about a separate site, but I do think it is worth regular coverage of this aspect of climate science. It is global warming’s evil twin, and I it potentially opens up another front in the battle with our opponents. I would like to see the deniers squeezed in a pincer movement between the two issues.

John Cook invited me to revise the intermediate rebuttal on this topic, and it was an opportunity I used to draw attention to photographic evidence of current damage to living organisms. Rob Painting and I discussed the writing an advanced rebuttal , but I postponed that to make way for the 18 part series by Doug Mackie et. al. The series was excellent, but goes into more detail than I think we need to make a compelling advanced version.

2011-09-30 16:39:38
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
91.33.125.150

"global warming’s evil twin"?

You're saying GW is good?

2011-09-30 20:30:21If you want to help out coral...
John Cook

john@skepticalscience...
123.211.208.191
...help debunk more of the coral/marine/acidification myths that are kicking around and we can add them to the database. I'm sure there are more around worth examining. The more attention coral reefs get, the happier Ove (my boss) gets and the happier Ove gets, the happier I get:-)
2011-09-30 20:40:34
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
91.33.125.150

To be clear, I don't see any advantage to opening up a second (or third?) site.

2011-09-30 22:06:55
Paul D

chillcast@googlemail...
82.18.130.183

I actually like Ove's blog/site and have occasionally commented on it.
But it doesn't get much traffic from what I can see.

SkS could do more to help that??

2011-09-30 22:16:02
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
91.33.125.150

Doesn't this count?

2011-10-01 01:03:16My thoughts
John Hartz
John Hartz
john.hartz@hotmail...
98.122.98.161

If the existence of other websites dealing with a given issue was a determining factor, SkS would never have been started.

All things considred, ocean acidification has been a step-child on SkS's readar screen. It's also a much bigger issue than just what's happening to coral reefs.

The overwhelming majority of SkS authors are focused exclusively on climate change. If a separate SkS website on ocean acidification were to be created, a new tem of authors with expertise in the subject could be assembled. 

2011-10-01 02:42:26
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
91.33.125.150

JH,

The link I gave was to a page of SkS, and is the index for 9 individual OA articles written for SkS.

I think the issue is lack of more input, not lack of a separate platform.

2011-10-01 03:07:31nealjking
John Hartz
John Hartz
john.hartz@hotmail...
98.122.98.161

A separate platform would attract more input.

2011-10-01 04:58:40
Rob Painting
Rob
paintingskeri@vodafone.co...
118.92.51.226

John, like Alan Marshall, ocean acidification is one of my pet subjects. I've spent most of my life on, or under, the sea so that's the reason behind my interest.

Unfortunately, we do not have enough researchers, or writers, to cover the many facets of global warming, so some areas are going to starved of attention. Just the way it is. If we could attract more people to research, write and critique blog posts, that would be the ideal.

JC's boss should be happy, I'll get around to finishing the coral calcification, and previous coral extinction rebuttals in a couple of weeks time.

2011-10-01 05:25:25
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
91.33.125.150

I see no reason to believe that a separate platform would help. I believe that SkS is a respected and compatible site that would be more attractice to join than the prospect of having to support the administrative overhead of an entirely new site. I think everyone at the SkS Forum would be very receptive to more news and insight on this issue: For one thing, OA has an obvious and near-term impact on food and economics (even if you don't care about biological diversity).

I think the main issue is that we don't have enough biologists in SkS. We should address that issue directly.

2011-10-01 05:55:38OK
John Hartz
John Hartz
john.hartz@hotmail...
98.122.98.161

I'll put this idea on the back burner -- for now.

2011-10-01 07:03:02New JoNova post - more garbage
KR

k-ryan@comcast...
216.185.0.2

Current top Jonova post, claiming "Ocean Acidification - a little bit less alkalinity could be a good thing"

Looks like a repeat of the "More CO2 will be good for us" meme.

 

Incredibly, hundreds of studies show that for pH changes that we are likely to encounter in the next 100 years, there is arguably a net benefit to underwater life if the oceans became a little less alkaline.

 

2011-10-01 07:12:16
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
91.33.125.150

Yes, good riddance to those scratchy old coral reefs - they just distract from the ocean's pure blue, anyway.

2011-10-01 07:57:20
dana1981
Dana Nuccitelli
dana1981@yahoo...
64.129.227.4

Her 'source' is the Idsos' co2science.  Looks like they've now created an ocean acidification database.

Their site has never really caught on with the fake 'skeptics'.  Every so often somebody claims the MWP was warmer than today and links co2science as a source, but other than that, I rarely see it referenced.  Hopefully that will be the case for their acidification nonsense too.

2011-10-01 16:46:26Something to think about re starting a new website
John Cook

john@skepticalscience...
123.211.208.191
Take it from me, it's very difficult getting attention on the web. The key to web traffic is getting good search engine rankings - specifically if you don't get in the google top 10 for your target key phrases, you might as well not bother. There are many different factors in how google work out their rankings. Longevity is one factor - an older site has a natural advantage over a new site, particularly in it's first 12 months. But the dominant factor in google rankings is inbound links. The more sites that link to you, the better and the more prestigious and authoritative the website that links to you, the better.

If our goal is to get the acidification issue in front of more eyeballs, you'll get immediate success (more bang for your buck) posting on SkS. If you want a webpage to rank highly for a certain acidification related phrase, you'd have a good chance with an SkS page. Particularly if it's a rebuttal to a popular myth that lots of people will link to from other websites and forums.

2011-10-01 17:16:53Its too hard to sell...
Glenn Tamblyn

glenn@thefoodgallery.com...
124.176.245.140

Unfortunately, the real details of OA are hard to convey to Joe Average. Also unfortunately, it being presented as Acidification is a bit of an own-goal. To ask most people to follow the trail from weakly alkaline to even more weakly alkaline, BUT the carbonate chemistry of the oceans changes substantially more because of how the ratio of carbonate ions to bicarbonate ions changes and then the saturation depth at which calcium carbonate shells start to dissolve rises - but that depends on whether it is Aragonite or Calcite. And then the degree to which this occurs varies over over ocean basins and then this has differing impacts on things like Pteropods - (Free swiming, tiny marine snails!!)

And I am meant to get my head around this WHY?

So an SkS website just on OA just isn't justified. Sorry.

2011-10-01 19:57:18
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
84.151.34.38

Because of the impacts on oceanic species diversity and fish stocks.