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2011-09-09 16:43:51 | Herbivores affect tree rings | |
Paul D chillcast@googlemail... 82.18.130.183 |
Just spotted this at ERW: http://environmentalresearchweb.org/cws/article/news/47108 Looks plausible and sensible to me. Makes things more complicated for paleoclimatology. eg. 'Tree rings can't be depended on because animals affect growth' It might be worth doing an objective post about it? | |
2011-09-09 16:51:35 | ||
Paul D chillcast@googlemail... 82.18.130.183 |
BTW I don't see it being reported anywhere else yet. | |
2011-09-09 17:19:05 | ||
Rob Painting Rob paintingskeri@vodafone.co... 118.92.61.26 |
And who better to write about it than a tree warden? | |
2011-09-09 17:30:01 | ||
Paul D chillcast@googlemail... 82.18.130.183 |
heh, heh, heh. Good point. | |
2011-09-09 17:34:45 | ||
Paul D chillcast@googlemail... 82.18.130.183 |
I just wish the name 'tree warden' meant you had to have a lot of knowledge about trees. If I have a go, it probably won't be until next week. | |
2011-09-09 22:50:34 | ||
Paul D chillcast@googlemail... 82.18.130.183 |
I need to think about this a bit more. | |
2011-09-10 02:02:41 | ||
perseus owlsmoor@googlemail... 188.220.205.42 |
Could this be one of the reasons for divergence in more recent times? | |
2011-09-10 02:07:15 | ||
Paul D chillcast@googlemail... 82.18.130.183 |
Yeah blame New Zealand/Australian sheep farmers ;-) | |
2011-09-10 18:01:46 | ||
Paul D chillcast@googlemail... 82.18.130.183 |
New York Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/02/science/02obtree.html
Which probably highlights how limited the research is. Probably needs more work with different species in order to get estimates to see if there is any impact. Have many tree rings been analysed in Africa, Madagascar, Asia and Australia? | |
2011-09-10 18:10:03 | ||
Paul D chillcast@googlemail... 82.18.130.183 |
BTW I think it is a matter of time before this appears in forums and discussions. Skeptics are going to add it to their string of points that they churn out. | |
2011-09-10 19:15:52 | ||
nealjking nealjking@gmail... 91.33.120.94 |
Well, to be honest, it does open up a legitimate realm of uncertainty. Until one goes back and does correlations against the amount and kind of animal droppings in the soil, it means that tree rings have yet another factor of uncertainty around them. Unfortunately, this brings back up the issue of the "hiding the decline": The real question being, Why do we trust tree-ring proxies at all, when we know that, at some periods, that they don't match the instrument record? I think this is a reasonable question that I have not seen discussed by proxy experts. | |
2011-09-10 20:12:20 | ||
Paul D chillcast@googlemail... 82.18.130.183 |
It's a Wiley publication, behind a pay wall, so I can't access the full article: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2435.2011.01877.x/abstract But the ERW report would suggest that browsing would mask the increase in temperature in cooler places (assuming they reported it correctly). ERW:
So if you have a bunch of browsing sheep chomping on short trees in the summer/spring. They will be nibbling at the leaves, preventing photosynthesis and reducing the amount of wood generated. Creating thinner gaps between rings. | |
2011-09-13 06:18:25 | ||
Paul D chillcast@googlemail... 82.18.130.183 |
It's only a matter of time before we see tree climbing sheep looking for a little tipple ;-) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14842999
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2011-09-13 18:11:51 | ||
Paul D chillcast@googlemail... 82.18.130.183 |
Just noticed this Watts post on the subject dated 26 July??? http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/07/26/tree-ring-widths-more-affected-by-sheep-than-temperature/ So why was ERW so slow off the mark?? |