2011-08-26 01:15:49Hot off the RealClimate press (CLOUD results)
Paul D

chillcast@googlemail...
82.18.130.183

CLOUD results in (haven't read it yet):

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2011/08/the-cerncloud-results-are-surprisingly-interesting/

Ok, it's a day old.

2011-08-26 01:50:40
dana1981
Dana Nuccitelli
dana1981@yahoo...
64.129.227.4

Very interesting stuff.  Aerosols and other pollutants are more important in cloud formation than cosmic rays.  Who woulda thunk it? 

 

Oh yeah, that's right, most climate scientists.

2011-08-26 04:13:26
Paul D

chillcast@googlemail...
82.18.130.183

Environmental Research Web:

http://environmentalresearchweb.org/cws/article/news/46965

2011-08-28 07:39:18
Andy S

skucea@telus...
66.183.179.249

Lawrence Solomon in the National Post: Science getting settled

gag

2011-08-28 17:21:22
MarkR
Mark Richardson
m.t.richardson2@gmail...
134.225.187.197

Good christ Andy. Reading climate denier pieces like that still shock me, somehow I <i>still<i> feel very uncomfortable when I read such blatant lies.

 

From the comments:

"Have you read about the theory? Have you read about the experiment? Go over to Watts Up With That. It's all there for your viewing pleasure."

Why not try Answers in Genesis for your science whilst you're at it?

2011-08-28 17:49:45
MarkR
Mark Richardson
m.t.richardson2@gmail...
134.225.187.197

I've been thinking for a while that perhaps a series which compares "skeptic" reactions with the real science would be interesting.

 

Lots of news sources routinely report 'THE FINAL NAIL IN THE GLOBAL WARMING COFFIN' or whatever, but in every case so far they've been wrong. They claim to be 'skeptical', but the second something supporting their opinion or the ideas they've been paid to push comes up it's 'proof'.

This is a good example. Also the Damon & Laut results, the series of joke papers published by (apparently) physics freshmen 'disproving' the greenhouse effect, Energy & Environment papers (Beck, Soares...), claims CO2 rise isn't human caused, the Spencer satellite blunder, 'climategate', Phil Jones interview, tropospheric hot spot, Monckton's IPCC vs reality, Lindzen & Choi, Soon & Baliunas, Soon's polar bear thing, McLean/deFrietas/Carter...

2011-08-28 18:00:48
Paul D

chillcast@googlemail...
82.18.130.183

That FP 'comment' is complete garbage.
The guy is using an online medium to publish his comment and then saying that unless something is published in print, then it is hidden away!

Plus now CERN is evil, along with numerous other organisations??

2011-08-28 18:05:06
Paul D

chillcast@googlemail...
82.18.130.183

Also, the FP is yet another site now that forces you to join something (Facebook etc.) in order to make a comment. If you sign up for an FP account it doesn't allow you to comment.

2011-08-28 20:08:11
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
84.151.53.248

Maybe an interesting series (kind of a re-packaging of existing material, in some cases) would a packet of Final Nails in the Coffin of AGW.

Kind of similar to the rebuttals, but focused on specific papers instead of on particular arguments. Part of the idea would be to develop an allergy to the phrase "final nail in the coffin."

2011-08-29 00:02:30
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
84.151.53.248

I'm sure someone could design a great visual: maybe a series of rusty nails; ending with the AGW zombie pushing open the coffin lid.

It would give us a humor-break - rare enough in the garbage disposal business!

2011-08-29 01:30:22
dana1981
Dana Nuccitelli
dana1981@yahoo...
69.230.106.125
I like the final nail series idea. It would be pretty simple - just do a Google search for "final nail in the global warming coffin" and similar phrases. Then start off every final nail post with that quote, followed by an explanation as to why the argument is wrong.
2011-08-29 12:33:07
adelady

amgnificent@gmail...
124.171.85.132

Bent and rusty nails in - and scattered around - a battered and scratched coffin would be a first-rate image. 

Even people who tend to believe all that guff couldn't resist it coming to mind.  We might think that the concept is old-hat, but we often see site visitors dredge up these antique news items and blog posts.   An irresistible contrary image might prompt further thought.

 (And if you're into the multi-paragraph-manifesto style of presentation at art galleries, the implication of the illustration is that this particular coffin is unsaleable.  It's been in stock for ever and despite being shoved in front of every prospective buyer - no-one wants it.)

2011-08-29 22:13:06If someone is writing a Basic Rebuttal of the CERN argument
John Cook

john@skepticalscience...
124.177.173.40

Got this email suggestion:

It would be good to have a mini-blog post that just uses this quote from the paper's author. Maybe a "simple" tab, to go w/the intermediate http://www.skepticalscience.com/ConCERN-Trolling-on-Cosmic-Rays-Clouds-and-Climate-Change.html

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=cloud-formation-may-be-linked-to-cosmic-rays

"it actually says nothing about a possible cosmic-ray effect on clouds and climate."

2011-08-30 01:15:19
MarkR
Mark Richardson
m.t.richardson2@gmail...
134.225.187.197

I like the 'nail in the coffin' idea, but I thought abut it for a while and ended up going more with the idea of being really skeptical about what blogs/the news tell you.

 

Quite often they don't say last nail in the coffin. I imagined it something like the normal rebuttals, but aimed at specific blog and news stories and highlighting the specific tricks the deniers use to mislead the public. WUWT and the Daily Mail are chock full of excellent examples.

2011-08-30 08:03:35Nail in Coffin Cartoon
jg
John Garrett
garrjohn@gmail...
98.112.44.162

How about a two-panel cartoon? First panel: several denialists enthusiastically nailing each of their last nails into the coffin.  Second panel: they've picked up the coffin and are shown carrying it off to the grave, but the bottom of the coffin, now revealing the label "scientific basis" or "scientific foundation" is still firmly on the ground, with an AGW character (looking a bit like Earth) sitting up and musing "They should have nailed the bottom first"

2011-08-30 08:51:24
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
84.151.37.22

I think using the "nail in the coffin" image would be funny.

We could use some funny: It's sticky (in JC's phrase), and it gets people on your side.

2011-08-30 08:53:00jg
John Hartz
John Hartz
john.hartz@hotmail...
98.122.98.161

If you want to start cranking out original cartoons, I can post them (once they're "peer reviewed" and blessed by the SkS author team) as the "Toon of the Week" in the "SkS Weekly Review" series. 

2011-08-30 09:17:22
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
84.151.37.22

jg,

Can you modify it so that it can be used as a "framing" format, for the projected series of last-nail articles?

2011-08-30 09:59:26Before we commit to this series
John Cook

john@skepticalscience...
124.177.173.40

Just how many times has "final nail in the coffin" been used in a way that we can debunk it? It feels like the phrase comes up all the time but is there specific examples? I'd like to see quotes and links before designing a button :-)

2011-08-30 10:08:01
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
84.151.37.22

Does it matter really if the phrase is used literally?

Papers that come to mind, where the deniers jumped the shark:

Miskolczi

Gin & Tonic (I've forgotten the real names)

I think there are at least 3 others, including the current nail.

2011-08-30 12:23:20
Andy S

skucea@telus...
66.183.179.249

You could start here. (1,000,000+ hits!)

Delingpole

McIntyre

McIntyre

Joe Romm

2011-08-30 14:02:07
dana1981
Dana Nuccitelli
dana1981@yahoo...
69.230.106.125

I don't think we necessarily need the exact phrase, like Solomon said that CERN had "settled" that the AGW theory is wrong.  Same intent despite different phrasing.  But of course it would be ideal if the deniers used the exact phrase.

WUWT commenter Scarface called it the final nail in the coffin.  Does that count? :-)

Also this blogger, and this one, and this one.

2011-08-30 18:43:38
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
84.151.33.152

Gin & Tonic => Gerlich, G. and R. Tscheuschner

2011-08-31 04:34:12Climate denier drones...
John Hartz
John Hartz
john.hartz@hotmail...
98.122.98.161

are hammering on this issue in the comment thread to "Elected Officials Deny Climate Science as Climate-Related Losses Grow" posted on The Hufficngton Post.

Please chime in. After all, I can only use the word "poppycock" so many times on a given thread.

2011-08-31 05:51:17
jg
John Garrett
garrjohn@gmail...
98.112.44.162

This is to let you know that I'm working on the illustration. Here's my start. Adding the figures and showing them nailing will take some work. Will add that when I can. Suggestions are always welcome.

jg

 

2011-08-31 06:06:03
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
84.151.33.152

I have a concept of using nails to frame the refutation:

1) Bright shiny nail: Next to the statement of the "fatal" problem with AGW

2) Nail being hammered into the coffin: Next to the refutation of the argument

3) Nail in pretty bad shape: Next to the summary of the situation

4) The evil zombie of AGW pushing open the coffin again

Something like that ...

2011-08-31 06:36:36
jg
John Garrett
garrjohn@gmail...
98.112.44.162

Neal, Let me see if I understand. You want four small graphics that would be in the article, like graphics accompanying each subtitled section of the blog post? Number 1 would be just the shiny nail graphic and the "fatal" problem is text, not a graphic? Same with 2, 3 and 4.

Have I restated what you meant? Should be pretty easy to do. (A lot easier than the cartoon)

jg

2011-08-31 06:59:05
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
84.151.33.152

jg,

Yes, and this could be re-used for each rebuttal.

2011-08-31 07:02:48jg
John Hartz
John Hartz
john.hartz@hotmail...
98.122.98.161

You could do the cartoon for the next issue of the Weekly Digest,

2011-08-31 08:27:21
Rob Honeycutt

robhon@mac...
98.207.62.223

Does anyone have a copy of the CERN paper that just published in Nature?

2011-08-31 11:42:08
Glenn Tamblyn

glenn@thefoodgallery.com...
124.183.160.169

Like the 4 coffins image - not so sure about the zombie.

2011-08-31 11:50:30
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
84.151.33.152

Doesn't have to be a very gruesome zombie; just something that you have a hard time killing.

The point is that they're going to have to try a lot harder to kill the GHE theory than they've been able to show so far: Silver bullets or at least shotgun blasts. These wimpy pseudoscience papers are not very effective!

2011-08-31 11:52:48
Daniel Bailey
Daniel Bailey
yooper49855@hotmail...
97.83.150.37

Uzi      Climate Zombie

2011-08-31 11:56:11
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
84.151.33.152

Great idea: What about an animation with the zombie shoving off the coffin lid as you scroll past the last line of the summary?

(Not too fast: Don't want to give our readers heart attacks.)

2011-08-31 13:52:25
adelady

amgnificent@gmail...
124.171.85.132

I still think the coffin itself needs to look not-fit-for-use.   Dust, dirt, scratches, dents.   

How mean and miserable would you need to be to buy that horrible thing for your dear departed relative? 

2011-08-31 14:06:37
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
84.151.38.217

Well, nobody spends a lot of money decorating a coffin for a zombie.

2011-08-31 19:28:58
MarkR
Mark Richardson
m.t.richardson2@gmail...
192.171.166.133

In my head I have an image of a scientist working hard with a laser and some test tubes whilst in the background some angry looking skeptics are hammering bent, rusting nails into an empty coffin.

2011-09-01 08:31:03@Rob regarding CERN paper
jg
John Garrett
garrjohn@gmail...
98.112.44.162

Rob,

Did you find a copy of the CERN paper in Nature?

2011-09-01 08:45:12
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
84.151.38.217

I strongly suggest that questions regarding copies of articles be handled elsewhere: off-site.

2011-09-01 11:31:57basic post ready for review
dana1981
Dana Nuccitelli
dana1981@yahoo...
69.230.106.125

Basic CERN rebuttal using the 'final nail in the coffin' language is up for review.

2011-09-02 01:31:32
dana1981
Dana Nuccitelli
dana1981@yahoo...
69.230.106.125

Give us a heads-up when you've got those nails graphics ready to go jg, and we'll add them to the post.

2011-09-02 03:20:25
jg
John Garrett
garrjohn@gmail...
98.112.44.162

Hi Dana, When do you plan to post this? I'll try to finish the pictures tonight. Or can I string it out to Saturday?

I'll have a something similar to the 1-4 steps suggested by Neal.

jg

2011-09-02 04:12:38jg
John Hartz
John Hartz
john.hartz@hotmail...
98.122.98.161

Are you interested in producing original cartoons for the SkS Weeekly Digest?

2011-09-02 04:32:46Badger: Yes
jg
John Garrett
garrjohn@gmail...
98.112.44.162

Hi Badger. Yes. I'd like to contribute. It just takes a little quality time to get one done. I need this weekend to finish the coffin two-parter that I described above. I forgot to answer your last inquiry in this thread, so sorry about that.

I drew another one on coal aerosols that might qualify for the weekly digest: http://www.skepticalscience.com/images/LookingCool_1024w.jpg This one has the advantage of being finished, or quickly embellished.

jg

2011-09-02 06:05:59
dana1981
Dana Nuccitelli
dana1981@yahoo...
69.230.106.125

No specific timeline on the post, jg.  The schedule's a bit funky right now because we have a bunch of posts in progress, but nothing's quite ready to publish.  But don't kill yourself working on this, Saturday is fine.

2011-09-02 06:09:34
jg
John Garrett
garrjohn@gmail...
98.112.44.162

I like to share what I have in order to get comments early. Here's what I have for the Nail In Coffin post section title graphics (1: problem, 2: refutation; 3: summary; 4-not done). I can change direction, do simpler, or whatever. I pictured the fourth image would allude to a smashed finger, with perhaps Mr. Global Warming reaching out of the coffin to offer some of it's last ice shown melting and falling off his head, saying "you better ice that (while you can)."

2011-09-02 09:49:26thumbs-up
dana1981
Dana Nuccitelli
dana1981@yahoo...
69.230.106.125

I like it.

2011-09-02 09:56:23
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
84.151.32.69

I'm waiting for the zombie.

2011-09-02 11:13:37
Andy S

skucea@telus...
66.183.179.249

Maybe add a sore tip to the thumb...

2011-09-02 18:36:59
MarkR
Mark Richardson
m.t.richardson2@gmail...
192.171.166.133

I prefer the idea of smacking the thumb with the hammer and letting a rusty nail fall sideways :P

2011-09-02 18:40:56
Rob Painting
Rob
paintingskeri@vodafone.co...
118.92.41.133

Poor JG, he'll never get it done at this rate!

2011-09-02 20:02:44
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
91.33.126.237

Then there's no coffin, for this to be the nail in.

2011-09-03 23:48:46
Paul D

chillcast@googlemail...
82.18.130.183

I'm actually swatting up for my interview at Nature on Monday (mainly XHTML validation, accessibility and usability etc.), but whilst having a look around the Nature web sites, I noticed the supplementary information for this paper and downloaded it.

The diagram referenced by the Financial Post blog linked by Andy S (4th forum comment on this thread/subject) clearly states that the diagram is a part of a 'typical measurement sequence', so it isn't surprising that it is published as supplementary material. It isn't relevant to any final results.

2011-09-04 01:02:36
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
84.151.33.59

If you don't have a zombie, no point in the coffin.

If you don't have a coffin, there's no point to have the nail.

The phrase isn't about carpentry.

2011-09-04 01:27:04Supplemental graph of what?
muoncounter
Dan Friedman
dfriedman3@comcast...
76.30.158.238

Nigel Calder is virtually foaming at the mouth over this graph.

 

I've commented on the multiple problems with the conclusions drawn from the supplemental graph on the ConCERN trolling thread.

2011-09-04 07:18:14jg
John Hartz
John Hartz
john.hartz@hotmail...
50.15.143.172

Your toon for the Weekly Digest looks great. My only concern is whether or not it will be redable when reduced to the size dictated by the SkS post format. In addition, you'll need to add your signature and a date.   

2011-09-04 16:53:20
Glenn Tamblyn

glenn@thefoodgallery.com...
60.229.49.157

Like it! One possible suggestion - after the 3 images that are a close up of one nail, the coffin with lots of bent nails, perhaps with more bent nails on the floor around the coffin, and maybe even a couple of broken hammers

2011-09-05 00:42:52
jg
John Garrett
garrjohn@gmail...
96.229.221.76

I'm reworking the coffin, nail, zombie angle -- literally, it's all about the right angle. Thanks all for feedback.

Badger, the cartoon format is 570 wide? How's this?

Coal use and aerosol cooling likened to tobacco use

The image was inspired by this headline:

Fox News-Inspired Scientist to Study Why Global Warming Has Stopped (5 July 11)
http://nation.foxnews.com/global-warming/2011/07/05/fox-news-inspired-scientist-study-why-global-warming-has-stopped

jg 

2011-09-06 10:40:18Coffin and zombie for Neal
jg
John Garrett
garrjohn@gmail...
96.229.221.76

Here's two of three to show a different perspective to get the coffin and zombie back into the scene:

 

 

If this works, I'll polish them create 3-parts: 1) nail ready, 2) hammer falling/or hitting the finger, and 3) coffin open (w broken hammers and failed nails).

jg 

2011-09-06 13:40:20
dana1981
Dana Nuccitelli
dana1981@yahoo...
68.6.117.21
Looks good to me. But I'm not as picky as certain other folks here :-)
2011-09-06 17:28:16
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
84.151.33.51

As the chief zombie fan, I like the concept. But would it be possible to show the zombie pushing up the lid, with his arm?

Also, this looks like more of a mummy than a zombie.

2011-09-07 01:42:14
jg
John Garrett
garrjohn@gmail...
98.112.44.162

Neal, you're correct. Instead of a fake zombie, I'll draw a real one, with arm lifting the lid.

2011-09-07 02:10:55
Rob Honeycutt

robhon@mac...
98.207.62.223

Do you think it's good messaging to refer to AGW as a zombie?  I get the metaphor but it seems like a conflicting message.  

2011-09-07 02:24:48
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
84.151.33.51

Rob:

- The end-point/punchline is focused on the "nail in the coffin": That's where we have to end up. The coffin has to fail, because the nails represent their arguments. The failure has to be demonstrated; which doesn't happen unless it's spontaneous.

- AGW is like a zombie, because you can't kill it with stupid arguments.

- It's supposed to be dryly funny.

2011-09-07 05:54:08Zombie Prototype
jg
John Garrett
garrjohn@gmail...
98.112.44.162

How about a zombie like this? A bit alarmist, but aren't all zombies alarmist?

2011-09-07 06:15:48
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
84.151.33.51

It's a bit confusing: Hard to visually parse.

I think a more "stereotypical" zombie with "AGW" written across its forehead would be more immediate and funnier.

2011-09-08 05:18:54One standard-issue, easily-parsed, global warming zombie
jg
John Garrett
garrjohn@gmail...
98.112.44.162

Zombie for Neal: 

First frame will be the hand holding the last nail in place, shown above.

Second frame (not drawn yet, but like an earlier image) will show the same view as the first but the hammer will be grazing the nail and hitting the thumb, a bit violent.

Third will be the zombie above.

If you want to use these, let me know and I'll polish them.

jg

2011-09-08 05:25:04
Albatross
Julian Brimelow
stomatalaperture@gmail...
199.126.232.206

Err, but now they will say that we are trying to scare them with 'zombies', although s/he is rather friendly looking zombie ;)  IMHO, the real zombies are the myths and lies from the "skeptics" and deniers that keep resurfacing.

That said, I also get where Neal is coming from, AGW will just not die, so it is zombie-like in that sense.  Maybe a different character/analogy is needed.  I'll think about it. 

Sorry jg, we say "try X" and that probably translates into hours of work for you.

2011-09-08 05:55:27
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
91.33.100.27

This is pretty good!

But can you make the zombie look a big more harmless? Maybe goofier? or slightly surprised? maybe with a little hair?

2011-09-08 06:16:29jg
John Hartz
John Hartz
john.hartz@hotmail...
98.122.98.161

Your Weekly Digest toon looks great. I'll include it in the upcoming issue.

2011-09-08 06:22:52Suggestion
John Hartz
John Hartz
john.hartz@hotmail...
98.122.98.161

Let's run the coffin/zombie toon by our focus group (signficant others) and see how they react.  

2011-09-08 08:57:36
jg
John Garrett
garrjohn@gmail...
98.112.44.162

Albatross, In fairness, Neal did say "zombie" when he suggested this illustration series, and I ran off in a slightly different direction, but I appreciate your sentiments. Some illustrations take time, others have been lunchtime projects. It helps me to share unpolished sketches early to pre-empt deadends. And creative re-direction on both sides is expected. For example, in Steve Brown's Eemian series, he modified some of his topic based on what I could fit in an illustration. That's rewarding for me. and I'm quite excited about the illustrations I'm working on for his next post in the series.

Neal, I'll try the happier, friendly zombie, but let's also see what the focus group says as I can't return to this project till tomorrow. 

Thanks Badger for the Weekly Toon spot, and a general thanks to all who helped me develop that illustration.

jg

2011-09-10 06:05:12
jg
John Garrett
garrjohn@gmail...
98.112.44.162

Here's a follow-through of the image sequence suggested by Neal. The images are still rough, but could be quickly dressed up:

1. Statement of the "killer argument" against AGW:

2. Refutation of killer argument:

 

3. Kinder, gentler zombie, it doesn't go away:

2011-09-10 06:21:49
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
91.33.103.240

I like the "look & feel", but the shape of the coffin seems like a biscuit box: too square. Where is the foot of the coffin, and how is the zombie's body oriented with respect to it?

2011-09-10 06:31:17My reaction
John Hartz
John Hartz
john.hartz@hotmail...
98.122.98.161

IMHO, putting "AGW man" inside a box just doesn't make sense to me. AGW is not a "jack-in-the-box" that pops up every now an then. Just the opposite, AGW is like the genie that has been released by mankind. How to get the genie back into the bottle is our biggest challenge.

How about showing refuted anti-AGW papers as litter along the highway to scientific knowledge? Or as tumbleweeds blowing in the desert of debunked theories? 

2011-09-10 06:42:41
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
91.33.103.240

B:

It's not supposed to be a box, it's supposed to be a coffin, that these specious "final" final arguments are supposed to be trying to bury - but failing.

The whole gimmick takes off from the phrase, "OK, this is the nail in the coffin for all that global-warming nonsense."

2011-09-10 06:51:16coffin
dana1981
Dana Nuccitelli
dana1981@yahoo...
64.129.227.4

Yeah I think this will work if the box is made more coffin-shaped.

2011-09-10 06:56:17nealjking
John Hartz
John Hartz
john.hartz@hotmail...
98.122.98.161

I fully understand what you want to portray. I just do not like the graphic concept for the reasons that I have previously articulated.

In addditon, I bleive the cartoon that you envision also connotes that a "good nail" could eventually be found. It also implies that the "AGW-man" was somehow corraled and put back into the coffin prior to the most recent attempt to nail him in. 

The phrase, "OK, this is the nail in the coffin for all that global-warming nonsense" doesn't seem to translate well into a cartoon graphic -- IMHO. 

2011-09-10 06:58:31
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
91.33.103.240

B:

I fully disagree with you on this matter.

2011-09-10 07:12:48
jg
John Garrett
garrjohn@gmail...
98.112.44.162

Regarding the image: the coffin was drawn incorrectly. 1) I made a pentagon instead of a hexagon. Can fix by tweaking the shape and rotation angle of the coffin. 2) the zombie isn't situated correctly. Both can be fixed if you decide to use this metaphor.

2011-09-10 07:21:28nealjking
John Hartz
John Hartz
john.hartz@hotmail...
98.122.98.161

I fully expected you would.

2011-09-10 07:37:33
dana1981
Dana Nuccitelli
dana1981@yahoo...
64.129.227.4

I'm holding off on publishing my CERN post until this is finished, so tweaking the coffin and zombie would be good, jg.

2011-09-10 07:46:14
Paul D

chillcast@googlemail...
82.18.130.183

Why not just have the letters AGW in the coffin, instead of a zombie.
Most people associate a zombie with something nasty or just plain wrong, you are effectively saying that AGW is evil or wrong by making it a zombie.

2011-09-10 07:48:09
Paul D

chillcast@googlemail...
82.18.130.183

BTW I also agree with Badger to a certain extent, the coffin idea is a bit to literal.

It's the sort of thing I would expect the characters from 'The Big Bang Theory' to create.

2011-09-10 07:59:37
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
91.33.103.240

It's supposed to be funny. A touch of humor in this situation would do us some good: Not only does it break the stereotype that AGWers are humorless fanatics either entranced by their computer models or bent on domination of the economy, but also, it's memorable. "Sticky", in JC's terminology.

2011-09-10 08:26:28
jg
John Garrett
garrjohn@gmail...
98.112.44.162

I'll work on the sketch tonight. I should have something tomorrow.

2011-09-10 08:59:29nealjking
John Hartz
John Hartz
john.hartz@hotmail...
98.122.98.161

For the record, I am not against humor. In fact, the Toon of the Week is the most popular festure of the SkS Wekkly Digest. If you guys can get the "nail in the coffin" concept to work, so much the better.

2011-09-11 04:04:04Last nail in last nail sequence :)
jg
John Garrett
garrjohn@gmail...
96.229.221.76

Here are three images for the nail-in-coffin. They can be resized or given other modifications. There's another cartoon I'd like to do on this theme: Show skeptics hammering nails. then they pick up the coffin, but the bottom, labeled "scientific basis" wasn't nailed and is still on the ground. They run off to bury the empty coffin, oblivious that they left the bottom and contents behind,  while the global warming character points to the foundation he's still resting on and says "they should have nailed the bottom [or science] first". That will take a few days to draw. 

 

 

 

 

2011-09-11 05:36:12How about...
John Hartz
John Hartz
john.hartz@hotmail...
98.122.98.161

adding an open box of nails labeled "Made in Deniersville" in the upper left-hand corner?

2011-09-11 06:40:39
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
91.33.120.94

That's looking pretty good!

2011-09-11 06:57:50
jg
John Garrett
garrjohn@gmail...
96.229.221.76
Badger: will add box of nails
2011-09-11 10:24:45
jg
John Garrett
garrjohn@gmail...
96.229.221.76

Box of nails per Badger's suggestion (should I have drawn all the nails without points, as in pointless? Too subtle?):

2011-09-11 11:54:35
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
91.33.120.94

Nails without points? No need to gild the lily.

I like it.

2011-09-11 15:42:25
dana1981
Dana Nuccitelli
dana1981@yahoo...
69.230.106.125
Looks good to me. I'll probably publish the CERN post with these graphics in the next day or two.
2011-09-12 01:30:56
jg
John Garrett
garrjohn@gmail...
96.229.221.76

Dana,

I had intended these to be 400 px wide so as not to overwhelm your article. I reformatted the illustrations above and took out the zombie without the box of nails, but a better result will be from exporting these to the intended pixel size. How would you like them? 570 px (max) or smaller (400?). Would you like a section title as part of each graphic? I'm also going to add the skeptical science URL too.

jg

2011-09-12 05:17:42400
dana1981
Dana Nuccitelli
dana1981@yahoo...
69.230.106.125

400 pixels is fine.  No need for the section title in the graphic.

2011-09-12 09:58:30Final zombie sequence
jg
John Garrett
garrjohn@gmail...
96.229.221.76

Here's the final versions. Each are 400 px wide, and I included a full size image of the 3rd graphic, in case you want to link to it for those who can't read the text on the box of nails.

 

This one is full size, but resized to 400 px wide using the html code.

 

2011-09-12 10:04:35
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
84.151.59.188

I just realized: It looks like eiither the hands are gigantic, or the zombie & coffin are midgit. Is there anything quick & easy you can do about that?

2011-09-12 11:05:53
jg
John Garrett
garrjohn@gmail...
96.229.221.76
Two options: I can show a little more arm. That would be easy but not quick, since I won't be at my computer tonight but could make the change tomorrow. The proportion would be closer to true but not quite. I used an accurate perspective in the earlier sketches and the coffin's distinct shape was lost. So option 2 is to accept the cartoon nature of it, eg the box of nails appears larger than true size. Zooming out the hands is easy, so unless someone stops me, I will make the change and post the revisions tomorrow
2011-09-12 11:09:24
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
84.151.59.188

What do you mean by "zooming out the hands"?

2011-09-12 12:29:28
jg
John Garrett
garrjohn@gmail...
96.229.221.76
Reduce the hands and show more arm (option 1). Sorry r being brief. I am connecting via my iPhone. Will post option 1 tomorrow. It will be easy.
2011-09-12 12:31:44
jg
John Garrett
garrjohn@gmail...
96.229.221.76
Option 1. Shrink hands and add arms. Sorry for being cryptic and brief. I am connecting via my phone
2011-09-12 12:34:26
dana1981
Dana Nuccitelli
dana1981@yahoo...
69.230.106.125

I don't think it's a big deal - I put the graphics in the post as-is.  But if you update them tomorrow, I'll update them in the post.

2011-09-12 13:37:45
jg
John Garrett
garrjohn@gmail...
96.229.221.76
I just read the post. Great! And I think the cartoons work. Seeing it in place, I prefer to leave it alone. I won't be able to make changes till noon California time (16 hrs from now) and so I don't want to hold things up. Neal, my compliments to you for pushing the idea to completion.
2011-09-12 18:29:25
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
84.151.37.4

I like it: The size disparity is not obvious when the pictures are separated by text (which is the expected usage).

jg, thanks for doing the work! "Genius is 90% perspiration."