2011-08-05 03:05:15e petitions
Paul D

chillcast@googlemail...
82.18.130.183

New UK government petitions system was launched today:

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions

It's actually a re-marketed version of a system the Labour Party brought in, that was named No10 petitions, but that wasn't much use because for most of the petitions (after their expiry date), you just got a polite email saying why your idea was rubbish.

This new version has a new twist, in that if a petition gets 100,000 or more signatures, the subject is likely to be discussed in parliament.

2011-08-05 04:19:55
perseus

owlsmoor@googlemail...
188.220.205.42

Top ten petitions, nothing on 'climate' or 'warming' at this time

Petition to retain the ban on Capital Punishment View 3,241 04/02/2012
Keep Formula 1 Free To Air in the UK View 1,514 04/08/2012
Restore Capital Punishment View 1,421 04/02/2012
Legalise cannabis View 580 04/08/2012
Britain wants referendum to leave EU View 564 04/08/2012
Absolute right to self-defence within ones home View 380 04/02/2012
Return of Hanging for Serious Crimes View 333 04/08/2012
Decriminalise recreational drugs View 271 04/08/2012
Remove the ban on gay blood donation View 233 04/08/2012
Formula 1 and other sports events View 221 04/08/2012

How about a petition to retain climate science in the curriculum since the government advisor is against it?

Climate change should not be included in the national curriculum, the government adviser in charge of overhauling the school syllabus in England has said.

Tim Oates, whose wide-ranging review of the curriculum for five- to 16-year-olds will be published later this year, said it should be up to schools to decide whether – and how – to teach climate change, and other topics about the effect scientific processes have on our lives.

Climate change has featured in the national curriculum since 1995. In 2007, the topics "cultural understanding of science" and "applications and implications of science" were added to the curriculum for 11- to 14-year-olds....

But Bob Ward... warned that Oates' ideas might not be in pupils' best interests and could make science less interesting for children.

"An emphasis on climate change in the curriculum connects the core scientific concepts to topical issues," he said. "Certain politicians feel that they don't like the concept of climate change. I hope this isn't a sign of a political agenda being exercised."

He said leaving climate change out of the national curriculum might encourage a teacher who was a climate change sceptic to abandon teaching the subject to their pupils.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2011/jun/12/climate-change-curriculum-government-adviser

2011-08-05 07:56:13
Paul D

chillcast@googlemail...
82.18.130.183

This is a good idea perseus.
Are you going to start it (assuming you are elligible)?

2011-08-05 08:17:56
Paul D

chillcast@googlemail...
82.18.130.183

Love this one:
Ban the introduction of Sharia Law in the United Kingdom ---
247
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/1178

Has anyone told Raymond, that we don't actually have it??

There are loads of capital punishment and death sentence petitions, with the old system duplicates were removed. They need to do the same for this new version.

2011-08-05 17:16:40
perseus

owlsmoor@googlemail...
188.220.205.42
I will draft something up, although it is more to avoid a change in policy, so I hope it qualifies with respect to the last two conditions summarised here

Terms and conditions

The purpose of e-petitions is to provide an easy way for the public to engage with politics in this country. All e-petitions will be accepted and published on this website providing they:

  • call on the government for a specific action
  • do not substantially duplicate an existing open e-petition
  • meet the further criteria below

To create or sign an e-petition, you must be either:

  • a citizen of the UK
  • a resident in the UK (you normally live in the UK

It will usually take up to seven days from the time an e-petition is submitted for it to appear on the website. During busy periods it may take longer

All e-petitions must call for a specific action from the government.

If an e-petition does not include a clear statement explaining what action you want the government to take, it will be rejected

 

2011-08-05 17:31:25
perseus

owlsmoor@googlemail...
188.220.205.42

Some more comments

Should climate change be dropped from the national curriculum?

There is a petition here started before this new government site opened

http://38degrees.uservoice.com/forums/78585-campaign-suggestions/suggestions/1943451-stopping-climate-change-being-dropped-from-the-nat

2011-08-05 17:44:42
Paul D

chillcast@googlemail...
82.18.130.183

I didn't know about the 38 degrees petition. Which probably is a good indication as to why it has a small number of signatures. if someone who is keen doesn't know about it, then it is unlikely to attract the average person. I think a government e-petition would get more interest, not sure it would achieve 100,000 though??

2011-08-05 17:49:45
Paul D

chillcast@googlemail...
82.18.130.183

One point is that it is easier to remove something from the curriculum, assuming there is something off the shelf that can fill the gap, than it is to put a new subject in and producing a lot of new materials. In this respect the skeptics have an edge when taking something out, because there is probably less work.

2011-08-05 19:17:10
perseus

owlsmoor@googlemail...
188.220.205.42

How about this draft?  Bear in mind one of the criticisms of teaching climate science to children is that it is not basic but an application of science, and there tends to be 'a back to basics' attitude with the Conservatives

 

Keep climate change in school curriculum

Climate Change is widely accepted by scientists as the major environmental challenge facing human civilization. Our children will be left with the consequences of our actions, so it is essential they understand the facts about climate change to counter the deliberate misinformation campaigns being orchestrated by various lobby groups and the low quality media. They also need this knowledge to deal with the impacts and help them find the solutions that will play such a huge role in their futures.

Learning the basics in science is important to children, but climate change illustrates real world problems and how to solve them.  This will be far more interesting and useful for their future careers.  We must therefore keep climate change in the school curriculum.

2011-08-05 21:43:56
Paul D

chillcast@googlemail...
82.18.130.183

I would leave out the bit about deliberate campaigns or change it to something else.
I think you need to justify it purely on it's own merits, not because someone is ideologically opposed to it.

2011-08-05 22:07:57
Alex C

coultera@umich...
67.149.101.148

I agree with Paul, the first goal of the education should be to address the problem, not to counter those opposed to the problem.  At the very least, switch the two around as you have them right now, there's always an implied prioritization when one orders something.  I do recommend taking that bit out, though.

2011-08-05 23:21:52
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
84.151.35.53

How about this:

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Keep climate change in the school curriculum

Climate Change is widely accepted by scientists as the major environmental challenge facing human civilization. Our children will be left with the consequences of our actions, so it is essential they understand the facts about climate change. They also need this knowledge to be prepared for the impact, and help them find the solutions that will play such a huge role in their futures.

Learning the basics in science is important, but bare principles sometimes fail to catch the imagination of young students. Climate change is a real-world problem with real-world consequences. Learning about the complexities of the real world will be far more engaging and useful for their lives than [SOMETHING]. We must therefore keep climate change in the school curriculum.

2011-08-06 02:14:48
perseus

owlsmoor@googlemail...
188.220.205.42

OK this is has been entered and should appear as Keep climate change in the school curriculum if accepted

Your e-petition will now be checked to make sure it complies with the terms & conditions for creating an e-petition. Checking can take up to 7 days, so we'll send you an email once this is done.

You need to be a UK citizen or resident to sign, please pass it onto anyone applicable once you see it.

2011-08-06 03:32:38
Paul D

chillcast@googlemail...
82.18.130.183

That is crazy.
If they check them, why are there so many similar petitions for capital punishment etc??

2011-08-06 05:01:21
perseus

owlsmoor@googlemail...
188.220.205.42

If you check in the rejected section, there are many more for that reason!

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions?state=rejected

2011-08-12 07:42:29
perseus

owlsmoor@googlemail...
188.220.205.42

Our petition hasn' t been published yet, but there is a one to make geography compulsory, citing the need to include the teaching of climate change within that subject

Environmental Education

Responsible department: Department for Education

If we are to promote environmental sustainability, more education is needed to increase awareness about climate change and general knowledge of the environment. The government should make geography a compulsory GCSE, and offer generous grants to schools who wish to begin teaching environmental/earth sciences (These can have big bearings on societies across the globe) as there is little of these in the overall science curriculum. It is vital that young people gain a understanding of the world we live in.

I think you can guess which one has eclipsed all the others and passed the 100,000 mark

Convicted London rioters should loose all benefits. View 105,927

 

 

2011-08-13 18:15:12
Paul D

chillcast@googlemail...
82.18.130.183

"Our petition hasn' t been published yet..."

It doesn't look like it has been rejected either

2011-08-15 23:44:09
perseus

owlsmoor@googlemail...
188.220.205.42

Our petition Keep climate change in school curriculum has just been rejected, can anyone else find which petition is the same, surely not the Environmental Education one above? No details are given

"This e-petition has been rejected with the following reason given:

There is already an e-petition about this issue."

 

If you look there are many similar petitions which have been accepted

Fuel duty View 94 05/08/2012
Cut fuel duty View 12 10/02/2012
CUT THE FUEL DUTY TAX View 1 15/08/2012
Reduce fuel duty View 1 15/02/2012
Reduce Fuel Duty View 300 05/08/2012
Simplify fuel duty View 1 15/08/2012
Remove the Payment of VAT on Fuel Duty View 5 15/08/2012
half the rate of fuel duty and double the amount of duty on alchohol View 13 10/08/2012
Fuel tax View 1 15/08/2012
Introduce a fuel duty stabiliser View 1 15/08/2012
Make Fuel Duty dependant on location View 1 15/08/2012
Make goods vehicles exempt from fuel Duty View 1 15/02/2012
A petition to increase fuel duty exponentially View 1 15/08/2012
Reduce the rate of fuel duty View 2 15/11/2011
2011-08-16 18:12:20
perseus

owlsmoor@googlemail...
188.220.205.42

I suppose we should consider voting for the petition which has been accepted then, although extending environmental education as opposed to keeping climate change in the cirriculum are not really the same. Neither are all the other bits

Environmental Education

Responsible department: Department for Education

If we are to promote environmental sustainability, more education is needed to increase awareness about climate change and general knowledge of the environment. The government should make geography a compulsory GCSE, and offer generous grants to schools who wish to begin teaching environmental/earth sciences (These can have big bearings on societies across the globe) as there is little of these in the overall science curriculum. It is vital that young people gain a understanding of the world we live in

2011-08-16 19:34:04
Paul D

chillcast@googlemail...
82.18.130.183

Are you a UK citizen Perseus?
(Have a UK address)

If not, then that may be why it was rejected.

2011-08-16 19:37:10
Paul D

chillcast@googlemail...
82.18.130.183

Maybe we should test the system and submit a bunch of petitions regarding climate policy issues, just to see if there is a conspiracy!

2011-08-16 22:50:43
perseus

owlsmoor@googlemail...
188.220.205.42

Yes I am and have a UK address.

As I said, the Email gave me the the following reason

"This e-petition has been rejected with the following reason given: There is already an e-petition about this issue."

but without a reference to the petition it duplicated, so I assume it is the one I indicated, unless you can find something else. Neither can i find an appeal page.

I have searched under 'climate' 'environment' 'greenhouse' 'global' 'warming'.

2011-08-16 23:23:37
Paul D

chillcast@googlemail...
82.18.130.183

OK, I should read more carefully!

2011-08-17 06:01:50
perseus

owlsmoor@googlemail...
188.220.205.42

Anyone with any other ideas for a petition?

I am all for companies reporting their carbon use per employee or turnover. However the CRC scheme being considered here is similar.  As far as I can see it doesn't include transport fuel, which could be reduced through teleworking and teleconferencing. 

How about all UK based, environmentally related conferences should be teleconference only or >50% teleconference.  They could use a variety of perks for the non traveling participants such as reduced fees and priority on questions?  Perhaps there should be a national target for the proportion of participants 'attending' meetings by teleconference, and organizations which achieve this can receive some sort of environmental accreditation.

 

2011-08-17 09:27:46
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
84.151.33.32

perseus,

Organizations that want to get things done already have the best reasons in the world to use teleconferencing to the maximum extent possible:

- It saves budget

- It saves time

 

To push things further than this is to burden the organization.

As someone who used to go to 10 international meetings a year, I know there are situations in which you need to have physical meetings. A meeting is a consensus-building process, it is not an exchange of information. You need to get people on your side, you need to have a few drinks with them. This cannot be done over a Skype connection.

10 years ago, people were having a lot of fun traveling to meetings, but in the current climate, travel has to be justified carefully. Quite often, there will be multiple conference calls between face-to-face meetings; but you still need the F2F.

To require that eco-related organizations go beyond what they are anyway going to be doing to stretch their budgets is to mandate that they be even less effective than non-eco-related organizations.

This is like trying to get rich by taking the bus everyday.

 

2011-08-17 17:29:20
perseus

owlsmoor@googlemail...
188.220.205.42

As someone who used to go to 10 international meetings a year, I know there are situations in which you need to have physical meetings. A meeting is a consensus-building process, it is not an exchange of information. You need to get people on your side, you need to have a few drinks with them. This cannot be done over a Skype connection.

I have heard this excuse time and time again, and whilst their is some truth in it I am very cynical about overseas visits being an excuse for perks and jollies. Taking a scientific view, what is the difference between consensus-building and information exchange? 

Everyone always has a 'good' excuse to maintain the status quo. Those who are serious about changing the system try to come up with ways of solving the issues.  In this case the question is in what ways can the system be arranged to give the teleconferencers an advantage. Hence the vital difference in my suggestion

 They could use a variety of perks for the non traveling participants such as reduced fees and priority on questions?

In what way would this burden the conference if the reduced fees are paid from increased fees from attendees in person?

Perhaps through electronic media it may be easier to connect people with similar or complementary interests than wandering around looking for people in the coffee break. Perhaps it might encourage interdisciplinary co-operation more than physical formal settings which tend to form the same 'old boy clubs'.

The vital issue here is that vast quantities of emissions are being generated for which really is (albeit complex) information exchange however you wish to redefine it.

The only thing that seems a physical 'necessity' in these conferences is the alcohol and food.  As a young researcher I was very shocked at the waste of time and expense at these events, for example the Monday evening beer-fest at Munich, half the people didn't turn up to the lectures the following morning (I made it in late).  Eventually I got used to it and saw some advantages in inter-personal contact, but perhaps I was right first time?

2011-08-17 21:03:29
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
91.33.125.220

perseus

The difference between consensus building and information exchange is different interests/goals: meaning that you have to do politics to get something done.

You can exchange all the information in the world, but if people don't agree on priorities and goals, it won't change a thing. And if they have different commercial or other interests, you have to really work to find mutually acceptable goals.

Even in the F2F meetings, the actual meetings are only 30% of what is going on. In the sessions, people state their positions; outside the sessions, the compromises can be explored, and the deals can be made. In the later sessions, the agreements are formalized.

2011-08-18 23:48:37
perseus

owlsmoor@googlemail...
188.220.205.42

Nealjking, I will get Johann Hari to change his article to this.  Does this read OK now? I have just added a sentence

.....In reality, dispersed consumer choices are not going to keep the climate this side of a disastrous temperature rise. The only way that can ever happen is by governments legislating to force us all – green and anti-green – to shift towards cleaner behavior. Just as the government in the Second World War did not ask people to eat less voluntarily, governments today cannot ask us to burn fewer greenhouse gases voluntarily .

It is not enough for you to change your bulbs. Everyone has to change their bulbs. It is not enough for you to eat less meat. Everyone has to eat less meat. It is not enough for you to fly less,  Everyone has to fly less, (unless you are a concerned environmentalist travelling to conferences of course).

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion...to-784893.html

Now back to getting the Climate Deniers to stop flying, this policy won't make it harder one bit!

2011-08-19 07:14:22
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
84.151.46.242

I think the entire approach of "you MUST do this, you MUST NOT do that" is completely counter-productive: It feeds perfectly into the deniers' default posture that "all the global-warmists are just out to establish a world totalitarian government." Red flag, meet bull!

In my opinion, the critical things we need to do:

- Impose carbon taxes to incentive reduction of GHG emissions

- Develop new electrical-power producing technologies that are carbon-free

- Work on technologies to remove CO2 from the atmosphere

and hope for the best.

2011-08-20 00:25:27
perseus

owlsmoor@googlemail...
188.220.205.42

Would you approve of a carbon tax on conferences and business meeting then?

2011-08-20 01:33:01
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
91.33.120.144

A carbon tax should be imposed on ALL activities, to avoid externalizing costs. This is an implicit cost/benefit signal that applies to everything.

2011-08-23 03:53:26
perseus

owlsmoor@googlemail...
188.220.205.42
Halt Climate Change Funding View 2 17/02/2012
Debate the Myth of Climate change View 9 16/08/2012
Repeal the Climate Change Act View 249 16/08/2012
Take climate change seriously and invest in all forms of renewable energy View 3 17/11/2011
Make Contraction and Convergence UK government climate change policy View 3 17/08/2012
Bogus climate change taxes View 1 22/08/2012
Change the Scope of the CRC Energy Efficiency Scheme View 1 16/08/2012

The climate change related petitions are poorly supported to say the least, perhaps those of us who can should sign the appropriate ones.  Even most of the 'sceptic' ones don't appear to be getting too many votes.

2011-08-23 04:24:44
Paul D

chillcast@googlemail...
82.18.130.183

The environmental people I know tend to be very cynical about government so a government petition system probably won't excite them. They also get prompted to sign petitions from FOE and Greenpeace etc.that target government policy.

On the other hand skeptics etc probably don't have a group to below to, so probably like the idea.

I did actually start a petition (about Freeview and Sky) on the last system. I managed to get just over 1000 votes after a lot of effort posting messages on forums that were related to the subject.

That 'Repeal the Climate Change Act' petition looks worrying, it has a whole year to run and it has 249 after a few days (it just went up by 2 since your posting!).

2011-08-23 04:49:40
Paul D

chillcast@googlemail...
82.18.130.183

Quick (might be wrong) analysis of some of the skeptic people posting petitions:



Repeal the Climate Change Act --- Roger Longstaff
Google Roger Longstaff = Seems to be involved in UK space industry??

http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm199900/cmselect/cmtrdind/335/335ap06.htm

He runs a company called Guest Associates (Europe).




Halt Climate Change Funding ---- Stuart Loades

Also started the Restoration Of Capital Punishment For Serial Killers petition

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/751

Which has 78 signatures so far. He seems to have appeared on the Proud To Be English facebook discussion group at some point.

2011-08-23 05:00:46
perseus

owlsmoor@googlemail...
188.220.205.42

Well the 'Roger Longstaff' is almost definitely the same one as on Watts, if you look down this post. 

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/03/29/tuesday-titter/

The campaign seems to be the same as this one. 

http://repealtheact.co.uk/tumblog/about-us-2/

Here is the website with some familiar names!

Who We Are

Patrons

Advisors

2011-08-23 17:39:35
Paul D

chillcast@googlemail...
82.18.130.183

That bloomin Dr Phillip Bratby again!
He is becoming a common feature as a 'consultant' on energy (aka anti-wind farm etc.)

2011-08-23 17:43:24
Paul D

chillcast@googlemail...
82.18.130.183

I'll try and get a 'warning' about this camapaign out to peeps I know. Trouble is, any publicity (even bad) will make people aware of it and we don't want that.

2011-08-23 22:36:28
Paul D

chillcast@googlemail...
82.18.130.183

 

Committee Members

  • Fay Kelly-Tuncay  BSc Administrator/Co-ordinator
  • fay@repealtheact.org.uk
  • Rev Philip Forster MA Treasurer/Co-ordinator
  • philip@repealtheact.org.uk
  • Peter Maxwell Social Media Co-ordinator
  • peter@repealtheact.org.uk
  • Carrie Spurgeon News Editor
  • carrie@repealtheact.org.uk
  • Ian Campbell Campaign Strategy
  • ian@repealtheact.org.uk
  • John Spurgeon ICT
  •  

 

 

 

The 'Rev' Philip Forster

The Treasurer of the RepealTheAct group. Here is one of his amusing videos:

http://www.spike.com/video-clips/327byp/rev-philip-foster-global-warming-con-is-a-tool-of-control

He appeared on Russia Today more recently:

http://youtu.be/en2yC-SPaNE

 

Fay Kelly-Tuncay

Is apparently a Liberal skeptic:

http://act.libdems.org.uk/group/globalwarmingpolicyfoundation

Supporting Lawsons skeptic organisation.

Actually I think I have come across her on a message board somewhere possibly on the 10:10 site??

Carrie Spurgeon (Another name that is familiar somehow?) has a Twitter account:

http://twitter.com/#!/spurgeonc

Not sure is she is British??
Her husband seems to be a member as well.

 

Actually I'm a bit concerned (but probably shouldn't be surprised) that these people are getting together. It's somewhat alarming that various individuals I have come across on various web sites have appeared as members of one organisation. They seem to be organising, but have failed to get any serious media attention so far.

2011-08-23 23:31:01
perseus

owlsmoor@googlemail...
188.220.205.42

I'm still stuggling to come up with another one for us, or find a way of complaining about the old one being rejected.  The mountain we're up against is indicated here in the third most popular petition.  This should worry us more since it will soon pass the threshold.

CHEAPER PETROL AND DIESEL, BY ROBERT HALFON MP AND FAIRFUEL UK View 60,539

It would be nice to have an explicit aviation tax, instead of aviation using the European carbon trading scheme.  Here any pressure on the price of carbon being increased will be mitigated through (dodgy) new Joint Implementation projects in Russia. 

That said, I think the effects of tax increases are temporary, people eventually adapt to the increases since many people have plenty of surplus income to play with, despite what they claim.

Current lowest price for gasoline in my area is £1.34 per litre x 6.24 = $8.36 per US gallon and they are piling into those forecourts like it is free! 

 

2011-08-24 00:24:25
Paul D

chillcast@googlemail...
82.18.130.183

I don't think the problem is ideas for petitions, I could come up with loads.

The problem is getting it 'signed' by enough people.