2011-07-25 20:20:22Help responding to John McLean
Chris McGrath

chris.mcgrath@uq.edu...
203.214.88.97
A couple of weeks ago I wrote an article for The Conversation about the Australian carbon tax plan (http://theconversation.edu.au/carbon-tax-plan-is-politically-astute-but-profoundly-inadequate-1975).
 
In the comment thread a climate change denier named John McLean continues to badger me with an argument that basic physics proves that the atmosphere cannot warm the oceans. His argument is set out at http://www.quadrant.org.au/blogs/doomed-planet/2011/01/alarmists-ignore-physics.
 
His argument seems crazy to me and I’ve said that but he continues to bang on about it and I don’t want to get into a detailed argument about the physics because I’m not an expert in that area.
Can anyone assist me by posting a short comment on The Conversation explaining to John why his argument that physics proves that the atmosphere cannot warm the oceans is wrong? I would greatly appreciate it. It doesn’t need to be long – just a simple explanation and maybe a link or reference for further information.
 
P.S. If you scroll to the bottom of the comments, you’ll see the exchange about this issue. There is no link to his argument, but in another comment thread (at http://theconversation.edu.au/whos-your-expert-the-difference-between-peer-review-and-rhetoric-1550) he provided the link to Quadrant that I gave above.
I am not sure if his argument about the atmosphere being unable to warm the oceans is worth adding to the rebuttals on Skeptical Science. He seems to be the only one using it.
2011-07-25 23:07:37
Rob Painting
Rob
paintingskeri@vodafone.co...
118.93.211.145

Chris, replied to here. My hyper-link didn't work though. He sure is one belligerent loon.

2011-07-26 00:10:19Chris
John Hartz
John Hartz
john.hartz@hotmail...
98.122.98.161

Tell him that the pshysics of what's happening is explained in excrutiating detail in a four part series, Does Back-Radiation “Heat” the Ocean? posted on The Science of Doom website.

Click here to access Part I.

2011-07-26 00:35:20
oslo

borchinfolab@gmail...
90.149.33.182

An even simpler explanation - the greenhouse effect does not heat the ocean per se, but keeps the heat from radiating into the atmosphere.

Why not ask him if he can prove with physics that a jacket can't keep him warm in the evening?

2011-07-26 01:31:15
Tom Curtis

t.r.curtis@gmail...
112.213.156.7

If McLean has made the argument in Quadrant, it is probably worth rebutting.  Quadrant is the most influential conservative magazine in Australia.

2011-07-26 01:44:03
dana1981
Dana Nuccitelli
dana1981@yahoo...
64.129.227.4

This is the same McLean who predicted the average global temperature would drop 0.8°C between 2010 and 2011.  He's a doofus.

2011-07-26 07:30:45
Chris McGrath

chris.mcgrath@uq.edu...
203.214.88.97

Rob, thanks for the reference to the RealClimate post on 'Why greenhouse gases heat the ocean'. I found the link to it at http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2006/09/why-greenhouse-gases-heat-the-ocean/

It seems John has drawn upon the erroneous work of Fred Singer in forming his views.

Given that, and that providing a response is made easy by the RealClimate and Science of Doom posts, it would seem appropriate to add this response to the list of rebuttals.

2011-07-26 08:24:32
Chris McGrath

chris.mcgrath@uq.edu...
203.214.88.97

The Science of Doom series that Badgersouth referred to was posted in January 2011 and suggests that "a very popular idea in blog-land is that the atmospheric radiation doesn’t heat the ocean" so it appears more widespread than I realised. It would seem appropriate to add this response to the list of rebuttals.

2011-07-26 16:19:01
Rob Painting
Rob
paintingskeri@vodafone.co...
118.92.35.182

We can add it to the list, but unless someone else volunteers, it'll take me quite some time to get around to it.

2011-07-27 06:05:50
Chris McGrath

chris.mcgrath@uq.edu...
203.214.88.97

I don't feel sufficiently expert in the area to write the rebuttal.

2011-07-27 07:57:55
Rob Painting
Rob
paintingskeri@vodafone.co...
118.92.82.164

Chris, I was ever hopeful someone else here would step forward. I've added it to my 'to do' list, but that's rather long and growing. We'll get around to it eventually. 

2011-07-27 14:39:30
dana1981
Dana Nuccitelli
dana1981@yahoo...
69.230.106.238
McLean responded to the comments. His response to my pointing out his utterly stupid cooling prediction was "the year isn't over yet". What an f-ing moron. Seriously, I wouldn't waste any more time with him. He's a denialist extremus.