2011-07-20 00:59:03Google+ A great platform for exchanging thoughts and ideas
Svatli

svatli@gmail...
217.28.182.1

I have been wondering if Google+ could be used as a platform for discussion and exchanging links and ideas for people like us (climate-nerds). For those of you who don't know what it is, you can read about it here, Google+: The Complete Guide.

My thought has been that we could have a platform where we could "hang out" and easily follow others in similar line of thoughts.

Short description of Google+:

"Similar" (not the right word) to Facebook, but much better control over who sees what matterial... By using circles you can have a group (f.x. called SkS) and there you can have group of people who you would like to talk about climate related matters - but your your old nice or uncle don't see any of that matter or discussion... It's easier (IMO) than discussion in groups on Facebook.

I'm not arguing that this very platform (SkS forum) should not be used any more, but it can maybe be a good idea expand and too "meet" likewise people online to exchange ideas "live" so to say.

But if anybody would like to add me - my name is Sveinn Atli Gunnarsson (I thing it should be easy to find me in search). I can also send invites to some people if there is an interest for that.

How about it - anybody want's to try it out in Google+ circles? - I saw that John Cook is there - but I don't know if he uses his account.

2011-07-20 03:11:56
Rob Honeycutt

robhon@mac...
98.207.62.223

I'm just starting to try to get switched over to Google+.  I've really hated FB for a long time but it's going to take a little time to get all my friends ported over to Google+.

2011-07-20 03:36:22
Svatli

svatli@gmail...
157.157.166.37

Rob:
I've put you in one of my circles :)

Good luck with your friends - I have the same problem, will probably have my FB open for now...

2011-07-20 05:50:06
dana1981
Dana Nuccitelli
dana1981@yahoo...
64.129.227.4

Yeah I've heard Google+ is trying to improve on where FB has flaws.  I'll check it out.

2011-07-20 06:07:57
Rob Honeycutt

robhon@mac...
98.207.62.223

I hope for Zuckerberg's sake that he's managed to squirrel away some of the value he's seen in FB.  It can be notoriously difficult for a high profile CEO to divest shares in their own company.  My prediction is that FB has so many faults, and lack of trust from its user base, that Google+ is going to scoop up almost all of FB's users outside of 12-18 months.

2011-07-20 06:18:00Invite please
Anne-Marie Blackburn
Anne-Marie Blackburn
bioluminescence@hotmail.co...
212.139.80.238

Could someone please send me an invite? Email's bioluminescenceuk@gmail.com - ta very much

2011-07-20 07:10:48
Svatli

svatli@gmail...
157.157.212.182

Anne-Marie: I've sent an invitation via e-mail.

I'll hope Google+ will be a hit - it some of the right elements...

2011-07-20 07:22:58Thank you Svatli
Anne-Marie Blackburn
Anne-Marie Blackburn
bioluminescence@hotmail.co...
212.139.80.238

Just got your invite Svatli - thank you :) I'm about to call it a day so I've only had a quick look but it looks good. And I think I've added you to my circles but it's a bit confusing right now.

2011-07-20 07:44:41
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
84.151.41.121

The only "´╗┐Anne-Marie Blackburn" I can find on Google+ is located in Newcastle upon Tyne.

2011-07-20 08:06:23
Rob Honeycutt

robhon@mac...
98.207.62.223

Whoops.  I just added that Anne-Marie Blackburn to my SkS circle.  

2011-07-20 09:41:16
Svatli

svatli@gmail...
157.157.212.182

There are two Anne-Marie Blackburn, at least - and I'm pretty sure I have the right one in my circle.

I have just added Neal King on Google+ - hope it's you nealjking...

2011-07-20 11:11:49
Andy S

skucea@telus...
66.183.187.28

Could you invite me too? agskuce@gmail.com

I really hate facebook. The worst thing for me is the difficulty of targetting discussions. I have a bunch of FB friends from my family, friends from my real-life friends,and several professional contacts and climate activists. My chatter with all four groups is very different and I really don't want to mix photos of my niece's binge-drinking outings with serious discussion with climate people. It seems as though Google+ will fix this with their "circles".

I think that FB encourages superficiality because everyone communicates at the lowest common factor. I hope that Google+ overcomes that and it will become a place for more serious--and fun--discussions.

2011-07-20 17:36:46
Chris Colose

colose@wisc...
69.86.130.70

Can you invite me?

colose21@gmail.com

2011-07-20 18:10:48
Svatli

svatli@gmail...
217.28.182.1

Andy and Chris - you got mail with an invitation.

2011-07-20 20:58:31
BaerbelW

baerbel-for-350@email...
109.85.236.255
I'd like to try it out as well. Is access still restricted to gmail-accounts or is it possible to join via the address I use for Google in general, which is baerbel.winkler@web.de? Thanks much!
2011-07-20 22:04:54
Svatli

svatli@gmail...
217.28.182.1

BaerbelW: You've got mail.

Regarding the gmail-accounts - I think (not sure) that you have to have gmail account to join, but you should be able to change the setting for that later on. Under settings, this text is presented:

You can use alternate email addresses to sign in to your Google Account, recover your password, and more. Alternate email addresses can only be associated with one Google Account at a time. In some cases, a person who shares an item with your alternate email address will be able to see your primary email address

2011-07-21 00:46:31
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
84.151.54.49

Svatli,

How do you issue an invitation, only knowing the email address? I can only go through the "find people" link, which is rather limiting.

2011-07-21 00:50:08
Svatli

svatli@gmail...
217.28.182.1

On the right side of the website - you will find "Send invites" field. It doesn't stand out, and you have to scroll a little bit.

2011-07-21 01:22:16
grypo

gryposaurus@gmail...
173.69.56.151

The best way to do this is to start a separate circle called "invites" or something, add people to it by their email address (even better add them as contacts to your gmail and then add them that way), then post something to that group.  They will all get invited by that method.  It is a workaround because Google+, still in beta stage, isn't letting everyone in, even after a normal invite.

2011-07-21 02:42:20
dana1981
Dana Nuccitelli
dana1981@yahoo...
64.129.227.4

Can you invite me too?  dana1981@yahoo.com

2011-07-21 02:54:45
Svatli

svatli@gmail...
157.157.212.182

Dana - invitation sent - hope you'll get it.

2011-07-21 03:21:40
Andy S

skucea@telus...
66.183.179.249

I invited Dana too, maybe before Svatli did. Not sure how that'll turn out.

Google+ looks good at first sight, lots to learn though.

2011-07-21 03:58:28
grypo

gryposaurus@gmail...
173.69.56.151

people who add grypo, actually can add me as Micheal Savastano (millhouse5000@gmail.com).  Just please don't use that name on public blogs or forums.  google + has awesome security in that regard.  I'm just being careful due to employment and privacy concerns at the moment.

2011-07-21 04:41:17
Anne-Marie Blackburn
Anne-Marie Blackburn
bioluminescence@hotmail.co...
212.139.80.238

Aha, I was wondering which one of you Michael Savastano was :) Still exploring Google+, seems like it has great potential.

2011-07-21 05:28:06
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
84.151.54.49

Actually, we should just get rid of this entire "General Chat" section of the website and repace it by a Google+ SkS circle. That would save some time, because the circle format works a lot better for this kind of thing that this website/blog mechanism does.

2011-07-21 05:36:38
dana1981
Dana Nuccitelli
dana1981@yahoo...
64.129.227.4

I joined but I'm not seeing Andy, Rob, or Anne-Marie (except the other Anne-Marie) in the people search.

2011-07-21 05:41:32
Svatli

svatli@gmail...
157.157.212.182

Andy: https://plus.google.com/116797919889006388940/posts

Rob: https://plus.google.com/109900013950598510411/posts

Anne-Marie: https://plus.google.com/103227894692811039986/posts

Myself: https://plus.google.com/100811509175342327997/posts

Hope this works :)

2011-07-21 05:57:58
grypo

gryposaurus@gmail...
173.69.56.151

John Cook  https://plus.google.com/114038180295025534318/posts

 

Me (michael s)   https://plus.google.com/110388973535720914181/posts

 

Neal  https://plus.google.com/103830607618989137011/posts

 

Dana https://plus.google.com/108377882170928117705/posts

2011-07-21 06:29:55Created an SkS circle
John Cook

john@skepticalscience...
121.222.9.229

And added everyone here to the SkS circle.

And that is the extent of my knowledge of Google+

2011-07-21 07:06:07Can we get everyone on the Forum into Google+ and into the SkS circle?
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
84.151.54.49

Then we could shut down the (rather awkward) General Chat section entirely.

2011-07-21 07:19:06
grypo

gryposaurus@gmail...
173.69.56.151

Well, everyone has to make their own circle and keep it updated.  Circles are personal to each user.  I don't think there is any method to "share" a community circle.  Like for instance, I could make an SkS circle and then post to it, but if I left anyone out, then they wouldn't see it until I added them.  Then John can post something to his "SkS" circle, but if say he left me out, I wouldn't see it.  I don't think it can be used like Neal is saying right now, unless I'm missing something.

2011-07-21 07:27:03
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
84.151.54.49

Each circle has to be maintained individually, but as long as we issue a member list from time to time, the circles can still have identical membership. That's all that is needed.

The mechanics of using the Google+ circle structure seem much preferable for the kind of discussions we seem to be having currently in general chat.

2011-07-21 07:31:08
Svatli

svatli@gmail...
157.157.212.182

Well I think Google+ can have some other angle to the discussion than the General Chat section. I see the possibility that Google+ could in some cases be a starting point for discussion, which could be taken here to talk about in more details (when necessary)...just a thought. I don't think that this forum should be shut down entirely - but it has it's weaknesses, like it ain't easy to follow topics here on the forum - but maybe that could be fixed.

I have added (I think) everybody here on my SkS circle - hope others will as well - it could also be fun :-)

2011-07-21 07:36:54
Svatli

svatli@gmail...
157.157.212.182

Right, grypo and nealjking - circles has to be maintained induvidually (as I understand it) - perhaps one can have a list on the forum in the start.

2011-07-21 07:48:09
grypo

gryposaurus@gmail...
173.69.56.151

ok, sounds like a good workaround

2011-07-21 08:31:02
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
84.151.54.49

I would like to reduce the number of channels I'm monitoring for SkS.

Currently, I look at:

- General Chat

- Authors' Forum

- Rebuttals

- Blogs

- Communicating Science

and now the Google+ SkS.

 

There is too much time spent just cycling among these channels. Even just checking on a newly highlighted section and scrolling to the bottom takes time and attention. This is a waste of time.

2011-07-21 08:57:19
grypo

gryposaurus@gmail...
173.69.56.151

When posting, choose whatever circle you named the one for SkS'ers, then check your share box before posting, then immediatley after posting, use the drop down arrow from the upper right corner to "disable reshare".  That will mimic the security we have here.

 

Yeah I edited to make that clearer, I believe ;)

2011-07-21 09:05:47
Svatli

svatli@gmail...
157.157.212.182

grypo: I don't seem to find this "disable reshare" button - can you please advice...

...

PS. Found it - had to read grypo's advice again :)

2011-07-21 11:31:15late to the party...
Tom Smerling

avi@smerling...
216.164.57.97

Sorry to arrive so late to this. . . .

Sounds like fun!

So. . . . . what exactly to I need to do to join the SkS circle on Google +?   Does Svatli or John need to "invite" me?  (My google email address is tomsmerling@gmail.com)

2011-07-21 12:00:47
Rob Honeycutt

robhon@mac...
98.207.62.223

Tom... I'm still new to it but I think you create the circle yourself and just add the people you want in that circle.

Part of the gig with G+ (I think) is a big complaint about FB is that basically all your friends are in the same big pot.  You mom now knows when your coworker has an affair with the bosses daughter.  With G+ you can segregate your "lives" into different circles and you can choose how broadly your conversations get broadcast.

2011-07-21 12:30:00
Tom Smerling

avi@smerling...
216.164.57.97

Thanks, Rob.   I'll give it a shot.

2011-07-21 14:47:35
Andy S

skucea@telus...
66.183.179.249

Tom, you need to be invited by somebody who is already in. (Google+ is supposed to be in beta stage and is closed to people who are not invited--I'm starting to think that this is actually a very clever marketing device; there are already 4 million members and the member with the most followers is....Mark Zuckerberg.)

http://www.findpeopleonplus.com/search?keywords=climate+change

Post your email address here, preferably gmail and someone will invite you.

Added: D'oh! I see you already added your email address.

2011-07-21 19:52:14Security issues
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
84.151.39.103

I still don't follow grypo's instructions on playing around with the "sharing" box. What is the concept of the sharing box?

Maybe we need to think more carefully about this: I don't like the idea of privacy being dependent on "everybody always doing the right thing": Security requires that the default action (= nothing) be safe.

Grypo, could you explain more fully what the sharing box does, and how your proposal keeps stuff from being automatically forwarded to people?

Also, if I accidentally include someone on MY version of the SkS circle that is not supposed to be there, s/he will receive anything I post to my SkS circle, including responses to previous postings by other people in my SkS circle.

Maybe this isn't such a great idea; at least not for anything private.

2011-07-21 20:25:43
Svatli

svatli@gmail...
217.28.182.1

As I see it, Google+ should be an addition to the forum, not a substitute. It is great to throw out links and stuff, but not so great to discuss e-mail from Anthony Watts (for example). As I have said before, it could in some cases be a starting point for further discussion in the forum.

I am still learning how to use Google+, but I thing there is great potential for discussion, at least as an addition (not a substitution) to the forum. I realise that G+ isn't for everybody - but my hope is that G+ can in some cases be very usefull. I know f.x. that I don't follow the discussion in the forum all to close, maybe because of the way it is build - f.x. it's not easy to keep track of all the new comments - that could potentially be changed.

I'm willing to try G+ out, and learn about the pros and cons - hopefully it's a good substitute for discussion online.

2011-07-21 21:10:42Chat might come in handy
BaerbelW

baerbel-for-350@email...
109.84.35.21
G+ includes a chat-feature and I think that this might come in handy and it might make the item on the SkS-todo list to set up such a feature on SkS obsolete. This is something we should perhaps try out to see if it is suitable for live discussions.
2011-07-21 21:56:54
grypo

gryposaurus@gmail...
173.69.56.151

"Grypo, could you explain more fully what the sharing box does, and how your proposal keeps stuff from being automatically forwarded to people?"

 

The sharing box is where you list the circles or people that you want to share the post with.  It is important to be precise with this.  And as you asked, yes, if you have the wrong people in your circle, they will see the comments and sharing.  So this would require everyone getting it "right".  This was the concern I had from before.  The onky way it defaults into the the share box correctly is if you start your post "from" the SkS stream.  But there's no way to guarentee people will do that.

 

You can stop it being forwarded to people by immediately (after posting) choosing "disable reshare" from the arrow dropdown in the upper right hand corner of the post.

 

This is probably too difficult an endeavor to replace the General Chat at this point.  Google plus will have to allow for sharing circles, which is something, I believe, is in the works.

2011-07-22 02:05:32
Andy S

skucea@telus...
66.183.179.249

I don't think we should consider Google+ for any kind of private discussion. For me, the idea of a G+ SkS circle is more to direct stuff that I think may be of particular interest to SkS'ers rather than excluding others from reading it.

I recommend that even on this forum we shouldn't assume that what we write remains entirely private. There are a lot of people authorized to read stuff here and it only takes one mole to wreck the confidentiality. There are probably some skeptic bloggers (Watts, Motl) and a few disgruntled banned posters who would love to read what is posted on this Forum. Access would be as easy as using a fake IP, making a few reasonable comments on the blog and then proposing a contribution to John. 

2011-07-22 02:58:41
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
84.151.39.103

grypo:

I think g+ is less secure than SkS Forum, because:

- to pass on something from SkS/F, I have to do it deliberately: copy & paste

- to pass on something from g+, there have to be 2 mistakes - but 2 undeliberate mistakes: a) poster to forget to specially check the "cancel reposting" box; b) 1 recipient to have accidentally dropped a wrong name into his SkS circle, and to reply to a). Eventually, it will happen.

Andy has a point that even SkS/F is not entirely safe. However, we have to be able to communicate somehow. Maybe we have to consider developing a more stringent vetting process.

2011-07-22 03:01:02
Svatli

svatli@gmail...
157.157.212.182

I agree with Andy - we shouldn't use G+ for private discussion as such, at least not until we are sure about how it works. But it is in my opinion very good addition, for those of us who like this kind of approach which G+ is offering - maybe it's not for everybody.

Baerbel and myself are chatting as we speak, that seems to work fine :)

2011-07-22 03:17:49
grypo

gryposaurus@gmail...
173.69.56.151

Neal, Andy, Svatli

 

I agree.  Google + not quite right.  But useful.  And might change for the better.

2011-07-22 03:21:07
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
84.151.39.103

Who is "Things Break"?

 

Neal

2011-07-22 06:17:36
Svatli

svatli@gmail...
157.157.212.182

I like to add a few points to my suggestion about G+.

We don't have to comparis G+ and this forum, it's in basis two different things and can both be very usefull in it's own way. I like the forum here and it's privacy, but I'm not following all the issues as I don't thing it's very user friendly (that could be fixed). G+ on the other hand is another way to discuss things and has lot of features which I, personally, thing can get the discussion on other plan (not necessary higher or better), where we can meet in a whole new way. I have f.x. had a chat with Baerbel today, as well as we tried the "Hangout" where we meet briefly for a videotalk (well I had video and we talked) and I'm from Iceland and she is from Germany, so it's another angle which we can't get on the forum. I don't necessarily thing that we have to take up issues on G+ which are in it's own way sensitive matters or delicate issues. And maybe G+ is more shallow in some ways, but as I´ve said usefull for tossing around ideas, links and discussions, which could in some cases been taken into deeper discussion on the forum.

Hope people are ready to try it out. I've got 11 SkS users in my circle and I'm hoping for more later - and I've also found other climate gurus over there which I keep in another circle.

I'm at least going to give it a try for now :)

2011-07-23 16:28:59People in each others' SkS-circle
BaerbelW

baerbel-for-350@email...
93.193.102.61

Assuming that it makes sense to keep track of which SkS-members we have in our respective "SkS-circle" I have started a new thread, listing the people I already have in mine. Please add a reply to that thread, if you'd like to be included in the "SkS-circle" and I'll keep the tally current.

2011-07-24 04:28:18Comment
Robert Way

robert_way19@hotmail...
142.162.27.99

how do I get on Google +?

2011-07-24 04:29:51
Rob Honeycutt

robhon@mac...
98.207.62.223

Robert...  send me your email address and I'll send you an invite.  Mine is robhon@mac.com

2011-07-24 04:30:56Comment
Robert Way

robert_way19@hotmail...
142.162.27.99

rway019@gmail.com

2011-07-24 04:38:41
Rob Honeycutt

robhon@mac...
98.207.62.223

Coming your way.

2011-07-24 05:00:03thanks
Robert Way

robert_way19@hotmail...
142.162.27.99

thanks Rob!

2011-07-24 22:06:07
Svatli

svatli@gmail...
157.157.212.182

I was just wondering... How many people are members/users of the SkS forum?