2011-07-19 01:10:04New Denier Meme: S02 emissions cancel CO2 emissions
John Hartz
John Hartz
john.hartz@hotmail...
98.122.98.161

You knew it was coming. The following was posted on the comment thread to Will the Real Global Warming Alarmists Please Stand Up? by Kelly Riggs ,The Huffington Post, July 18, 2001

Is someone working on a rebuttal?


There are many pending arguments regarding the global warming hysteria. First the planet has undergone climate change time and time again in cycles roughly 5,000 years - TRUE the increase in CO2 is a man-made component but the latest news is that coal fired plants release sulfur that largely negates the carbon dioxide - a neutral balance. Carbon credits are a JOKE. Plants can be just a "dirty" as they want by simply trading for credits offsetting their potential penalty potential. The only people that truly will gain from the credits are the Wall Street and internatio­nal traders that will make bets accordingl­y. It's all well and nice, politicall­y and environmen­tally correct that the United States adhere to a "green" program. HOWEVER, China (the powerhouse of the global economy) has no such interest and continues to build coal fired plants at the rate of one per week - with everyone else on the planet violating environmen­tal protocols where lies the benefit of the USA? We have coal reserves that are estimated to last for the next 200 years. We put a man on the moon within ten-years of launching our first satellite - how about making our reserves a national priority issue instead of forcing everyone to use LED lightbulbs­? Climate change is not ours to prevent but requires the cooperatio­n of everyone on the planet - I doubt this will become a global issue before personal and economic survival especially NOW.

 

2011-07-19 01:53:34
Dikran Marsupial
Gavin Cawley
gcc@cmp.uea.ac...
139.222.14.107

The rebuttal is fairly obvious, ignoring the other environmentla effects, at some point we'll have to stop burning coal (it won't last forever), at which point the SO2 will quickly wash out of the atmosphere, but the CO2 won't, and there will be 200 years of CO2 emissions driving the then unchecked greenhsouse effect, which will then reassert itself very strongly.  If you are calous enough not to care about people living 200 years from now, then I can see how it would seem like a good argument.

2011-07-19 01:55:10
dana1981
Dana Nuccitelli
dana1981@yahoo...
64.129.227.4

It's also not a net neutral effect.  If it were, the planet wouldn't have warmed 0.8°C over the past century.  Warming from GHG emissions is clearly outpacing cooling from SO2 emissions even in the short-term.

2011-07-19 01:59:54Dikran & Dana
John Hartz
John Hartz
john.hartz@hotmail...
98.122.98.161

Muchos gracias.

PS -- I still believe a formal rebuttal is in order.

2011-07-19 02:13:25Missing the usual
BaerbelW

baerbel-for-350@email...
93.231.176.61

..., namely the evil twin of global warming. Somehow I don't think that more SO2 in the atmosphere will have a positive effect as far as ocean acidification goes.

2011-07-19 02:30:03
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
84.151.37.179

Hiding the CO2 warming with SO2 cooling is like paying off your credit-card balance with a new credit card.

Eventually, you still have to pay the bill yourself.

2011-07-19 02:37:41Ocean acidification
John Hartz
John Hartz
john.hartz@hotmail...
98.122.98.161

What impact will more SO2 in the atmosphere have on the oceans?

2011-07-19 02:46:20
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
84.151.37.179

B: It wiill fail to neutralize the effect of the CO2 on the oceans.

2011-07-19 03:25:30nealjking
John Hartz
John Hartz
john.hartz@hotmail...
98.122.98.161

SO2 and NO2 emissions cause acid rain. I presume that this phenonom will cause the oceans to beocme more acidic.

2011-07-19 03:36:05
rustneversleeps
George Morrison
george.morrison2@sympatico...
198.96.180.245

The other "issue", of course, is that CO2 accumulates in the atmosphere, while the SO2 cycles out (rains, etc.) fairly quickly. So, even IF you concede the denier point in the near term, in order to keep counteracting the inexorably larger and larger CO2 forcing, you have to keep injecting proportionately more and more SO2... which, annoyingly, adds more and more CO2! (at the least the way we do it now...)

The point is that eventually the cumulative nature of the long-lived forcing likely overwhelms the transient offset... if it is accompanied by CO2 emissions...

2011-07-19 08:05:52
Doug Mackie
Doug Mackie
dougmackie68@gmail...
202.154.152.218

Last week Keith Hunter (my coauthor on the OA not OK posts) and some big names in ocean and atmospheric research published this on the effect of SOx and NOx from shipping on OA and CO2 uptake.

2011-07-19 08:12:20
dana1981
Dana Nuccitelli
dana1981@yahoo...
64.129.227.4

Would Keith be interested in writing a blog post summarizing the findings of the research, Doug?

2011-07-19 13:58:02Badger - acid rain has little to do with OA
Stephen Leahy

writersteve@gmail...
208.74.213.247

Two different processes SOx/NOx VS CO2 and their impacts on oceans. (see Keith's paper). Emissions of CO2 is what drives OA.

The denier take on this is like saying my cancer must be gone because I'm feeling pretty good after drinking a couple of bottles of wine.

2011-07-19 14:06:37Stephen Leahy
John Hartz
John Hartz
john.hartz@hotmail...
98.122.98.161

I understand that CO2 is the primary driver of OA. Doesn't acid rain also contribute to it?

2011-07-19 16:58:22
Paul D

chillcast@googlemail...
82.18.130.183

The science isn't new.
The only new factor here is that China has been producing a lot of SO2 masking warming. The same thing was known to have been caused by developed nations before emissions control.

So the issue here is a media news story, not about science, but about a nations known activities.

2011-07-20 20:48:50
Doug Mackie
Doug Mackie
dougmackie68@gmail...
202.154.152.218

Perhaps, but not before the end of the current series.

2011-07-20 23:37:06Paul D
John Hartz
John Hartz
john.hartz@hotmail...
98.122.98.161

I really do not understand the point of your last comment. Please elaborate.

2011-07-21 08:55:25
Doug Mackie
Doug Mackie
dougmackie68@gmail...
202.154.152.218

Perhaps Keith Hunter and I will get round to writing a post about the SOx and NOx from shipping paper I referred to in my first comment that dana asked if he'd write a post about but if he does so it will not be until the cuttent series on OA is complete.