2011-07-13 08:06:43Tea party in space and climate change
Paul D

chillcast@googlemail...
82.18.130.183

Was reading an article in New Scientist about American space policy after the Shuttle and noticed a mention of The Tea Party in Space.

So decided to investigate, to see what they had to say about satelites and such vehicles designed to measure Earths environment. Came across this:

http://www.teainspace.com/tea-party-we-have-a-problem/#more-31

Moreover, imagine if we could launch “climate change” probes and instead of giving the data to selected scientists to inform us of our impending doom, we just gave the data to everyone and let them see climate change for what it is.  Both sides could explain what the data means and allow everyone to come to their own conclusions without scientists who support climate change lying to the public and doctoring data.

A perfect example of this is the GLORY mission.  Sadly, NASA lost this mission a few weeks ago to an improper fairing separation.  This mission, amongst other things, would have measured aerosols in the earths atmosphere.  How awesome would it have been to just release the data showing most of the world’s aerosols are being released into the atmosphere from third world countries… and China?

No manipulation.  No skewing the data.  Here you go… the data says…  Let the liberals and the political left to defend their worshiping at the unholy altar which is global warming, change, or whatever they come up with next as it gets debunked.

 


2011-07-13 08:30:42Tea Party in Space -- fitting
jg
John Garrett
garrjohn@gmail...
108.23.2.2

This is rich. A few years ago I challenged someone in the local paper. This person was saying we need to use "fresh" data from satellites instead of "stale" data in computer models. I wrote in describing the multitude of corrections done to "fresh" satellite data before it can become usable. This person later become one of the key local members of the Tea Party. No surprise there.

I say give them the raw, uncorrected data and see if they can get to step 1 with it. 

2011-07-13 08:49:45How about...
John Hartz
John Hartz
john.hartz@hotmail...
98.122.98.161

sending the Teapers into space so they could check out conditions first hand. The hitch -- Due to budget cuts, they won't be able to return to Earth. Oh well, that's life.  

2011-07-13 09:11:49
dana1981
Dana Nuccitelli
dana1981@yahoo...
64.129.227.4

Tea Party has become synonymous with ignorance and stupidity.

Another stupid issue - the 'Tea Party' is trying to repeal a bill which requires increasingly energy efficient lightbulbs.  They're claiming that it would ban incandescents, and therefore the government is infringing upon our rights to ancient lightbulb technology.  But several manufacturers have already made incandescents which meet the higher energy efficiency requirements, so the 'Tea Partiers' are just lying.  The bill has saved energy, saved money, and created more lightbulb choices (and lightbulb manufacturers support it), but they're trying to repeal it for no apparent reason, except to exploit Tea Party ignorance for political gain.  The lightbulb manufacturers have actually been lobbying for the Tea Party/Republicans to stop trying to repeal the bill.

You'd think we would get used to Tea Party stupidity, but it just never ceases to amaze me.  These folks see themselves as true patriots, when all the while they're dragging our country down into the gutter.  If they were given raw climate data, they wouldn't have a clue what to do with it, yet they're sure it would disprove AGW.

2011-07-13 17:25:38
Paul D

chillcast@googlemail...
82.18.130.183

Dana what happened to General Electrics super efficient incandescent energy saving bulbs??

They were developing them a few years ago, but they seemed to disapear.

2011-07-13 21:15:05
Ari Jokimäki

arijmaki@yahoo...
91.154.101.246

I might be wrong but I think lot of the data already is available.

2011-07-13 21:32:31
Alex C

coultera@umich...
67.149.101.148

>>>I might be wrong but I think lot of the data already is available.

I cannot with much personal certainty concur, but I do believe that is the case and personally wonder if we should even do as jg suggested, and instead let them see if they can get to step zero.

2011-07-14 00:38:47
Paul D

chillcast@googlemail...
82.18.130.183

It would be useful to get a list of URLs showing where the data is held.

I would be happy to post it on that Tea Party post and see what happens.

Could be amusing.

Maybe SkS should have a resource listing sources of raw data, processed data etc.

2011-07-14 01:02:13jg - satellite corrections
Anne-Marie Blackburn
Anne-Marie Blackburn
bioluminescence@hotmail.co...
80.42.217.179

jg, could you point to a good site where I can learn more about the corrections done to satellite data? It might come in useful. Ta.

2011-07-14 03:23:41
Paul D

chillcast@googlemail...
82.18.130.183

I was hoping someone would point me in the right direction!

2011-07-14 04:02:33
jg
John Garrett
garrjohn@gmail...
108.23.2.2

Hi Paul,

I don't have a good list at the moment, but I recall a few bloggers who have put useful links up. Here's the first one I can find (because I'm using it to grab IPCC temperature reconstructions). It was through this set that I found unsmoothed versions of the temperature reconstructions going back about 1000 years.

Clouded Hills

Openmind has another good list, but I don't know if it leads to raw data, but I'll look when I can.

jg

2011-07-14 04:10:41Reality check...
John Hartz
John Hartz
john.hartz@hotmail...
98.122.98.161

Do you all really beleive that climate deniers are going to spend their time analyzing raw data? Is it worth the time and effort to set-up a "Gotcha" trap?

2011-07-14 05:21:26
Paul D

chillcast@googlemail...
82.18.130.183

Remote Sensing Systems a commercial company I assume funded by NASA seems to be one of the main sources of data, but not sure if they provide raw microwave data. It seems that temperature is derived by measuring the different radiation frequences and deriving temperature from that:

http://www.ssmi.com/

Given that the conversion process is probably complex and requires knowledge of the satelites, I'm not sure that many scientists would benefit from access to the raw data.

RSS do provide the algorithims for converting the raw data to temperatures. The TMI algorithm document is over 50 pages long.

http://www.ssmi.com/papers/amsr/AMSR_Ocean_Algorithm_Version_2.pdf

At this moment I can't see if they make the microwave data available.

2011-07-14 05:23:27
jg
John Garrett
garrjohn@gmail...
108.23.2.2

Hi Anne-Marie, I'm not the best person to ask, as I'm a self-learning amateur, but here's a start:

Recently I was adding total solar irradiance (TSI) data an online interactive chart of temperature and sunspot data, and found some data uncorrected for the elliptical shape of Earth's data here:

 NOAA solar irradience (I need to dig a little to show exactly where it was)

and more data on TSI here: SORCE TSI

Regarding my example of rebutting a Tea Party denialist, I found a description of the treatment of the raw data obtained from the Aqua probe (the Tea Party writer was citing the Aqua mission as support for her anti-AGW claims, a common talking point at the time). I've lost my links, but will hunt this down.

Adding to Badger's comment, these people rarely answer a rebuttal, let alone open Excel. However, I think it might make an interesting flowchart of what happens to data, with an emphasis on the skills needed to make corrections and where such work and data is publicly available. The flowchart would have a reject education option (not unlike the Game of Life that lets you skip college) so you can reject the results and choose your own interpretation.

2011-07-14 05:29:16
Paul D

chillcast@googlemail...
82.18.130.183

BTW, why would a commerical company provide free raw data??
Are they going to have adverts in amongst the raw data :-)

2011-07-14 11:24:20
dana1981
Dana Nuccitelli
dana1981@yahoo...
173.8.184.177

"the data" is pretty damn vague.  RealClimate provided helpful links to a bunch of raw climate data sources already.  That would be a good starting point for a Tea Party response post.

Paul - I can't speak for GE specifically, but I know there are several lightbulb manufacturers who are now offering much more efficient incandescents which meet the new standards.  I think Phillips and Sylvania are a couple examples.

2011-07-15 03:52:12
Paul D

chillcast@googlemail...
82.18.130.183

Dana, found the article about the Phillips bulbs. Looks like they use about 25% less energy, not so impressive:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/04/29/idUK273367407320110429

2011-07-15 04:56:47
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
84.151.34.69

My impression is that the lifetime of the CFL bulbs is often shorter than advertised.

2011-07-16 05:12:02Thanks jg
Anne-Marie Blackburn
Anne-Marie Blackburn
bioluminescence@hotmail.co...
80.42.210.162

Thanks jg, will have a look. The idea that satellite data requires no or very little correction occasionally pops up in discussions so I'd like to find out more than the very basics, which is where I am now.