2011-05-25 13:45:24Court orders Mann emails from UVA to ATI
grypo

gryposaurus@gmail...
173.69.56.151

Yay more email fun in store!

2011-05-25 23:39:52American Tradition Institute
John Hartz
John Hartz
john.hartz@hotmail...
98.122.68.19

Until I read the WUWT post, I did not know about the existence of the American Tradition Institute and its Law Center. Yet more cogs in the Climate Denial Spin Machine.

Here's a direct link to the ATI's post on this matter.

http://www.atinstitute.org/ati-law-center-asks-court-to-dislodge-university-of-virginia-%E2%80%98climategate%E2%80%99-and-other-documents-that-pertain-to-climate-scientist-michael-mann/   

 

2011-05-26 00:32:27
Paul D

chillcast@googlemail...
82.18.130.183

ATI:

Responsible environmental policy can be reduced to a simple principle: respect for others. Care for the environment is best manifested when individuals responsibly manage their personal property in a manner that does not infringe negatively upon the welfare of fellow citizens’ health, their economic and individual rights, or their property.


I'd like to know how care for the environment is satisfied by this view.
It has a very American religious tone.
It implies that all land has to be owned privately or has to be owned by humans. eg. no land that isn't managed by humans.

But there is one statement there that has implications regarding climate change:

"in a manner that does not infringe negatively upon the welfare of fellow citizens’ health, their economic and individual rights, or their property"

That implies that even if all land was owned privately, then  the pollution and by definition carbon emissions are an issue, since climate change most definitely effects fellow citizens health etc. That then puts the onus on proving the science.

2011-05-26 03:01:06
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
84.151.48.26

Libertarian ideas do not handle "tragedy of the commons" problems well.

They also don't deal terribly well with health-care insurance.

2011-05-26 03:10:14
Albatross
Julian Brimelow
stomatalaperture@gmail...
199.126.232.206

I would love to see the emails of Pielke Snr, Michael, Lindzen and Christy.

Why are 'we' always on the defensive?  When the hell is someone going to get serious and expose these people, the real charlatans?

This is pathetic.

2011-05-26 03:20:24
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
84.151.48.26

I suspect the reason is that you can subpoena/FOIA something that contributes to a policy or output for a public entity. Do these guys have output that has a legitimate official effect?

2011-05-26 04:41:43FOIA Laws in the US
John Hartz
John Hartz
john.hartz@hotmail...
99.95.221.238

To the best of my knowledge, FOIA laws only apply to public entities in the US. 

Because most of the cogs in the Climate Denial Spin Machine are private entitites, they are not subject to FOIA laws.

Where's Wikileaks when we need them?  

2011-05-26 06:27:54
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
84.151.48.26

Badgersouth,

Unfortunately, you need a leaker (or a good burglar) before Wikileaks becomes applicable.

2011-05-26 06:47:09Nealjking
John Hartz
John Hartz
john.hartz@hotmail...
99.95.221.238

Given how fond climate deniers are of peeing in the wind, there should be a few good leakers in the crowd.