2011-05-24 22:23:16More sceptics being added
PM

morris113@optusnet.com...
122.108.197.111

Hi all

I have started adding more skeptics to the list. To date the following have been added:

Climate Sceptic Party - Anthony Cox

Institute of Public Affairs (IPA) - Ted Lapkin, Alan Moran

I will be adding more to the above groups over the next two weeks.

I will also be adding skeptical scientists who are often referenced such as Tom V. Segalstad, Robert H.Essenhigh. I am also struggling to find papers that refute Segalstad etc and would appreciate it if some one can point me in the right direction.

Regards Paul

2011-05-24 22:43:00Adding skeptics
John Cook

john@skepticalscience...
58.166.133.186

I think it will give this project more focus if we look to do semi-regular posts with quotes. For example, I started adding quotes from Aussie shock jocks, with the intent of doing a post showing how these radio presenters just regurgitate old myths. I haven't had time to harvest more quotes though.

I am a big believer that our quotes resource could be very powerful in many different ways. So I would suggest if you'd like to add some quotes, pick a certain group, grab enough quotes so the collection will make a substantial blog post then do a post about it. At the very least, all you need is an intro paragraph saying "here is an example of the climate myths from .... plus links to what the science says about each myth" (I'm sure you could all come up with a more eloquent intro).

So you could look at skeptics from a specific country (especially politicians outside of US as we've already hit those). It could be politicians of a certain nature (eg - GOPs running for the Republican primary). Could be skeptic scientists (eg - to contrast their loose public quotes with their more circumspect peer reviewed research). Could be skeptics all belonging to a particular group (eg - Carbon Brief have been collecting quotes from GWPF skeptics).

If you've started focusing on a group and want help, start a thread in the Disinformation Deniers forum and hopefully others will come to the party.

Also, you can search the entire quotes database via http://www.skepticalscience.com/quotesearch.php - I haven't launched this page yet so feel free to email suggestions to improve this search engine.

2011-05-24 23:30:41What list?
John Hartz
John Hartz
john.hartz@hotmail...
98.122.68.19

Where can I find the list that Paul is adding to?

2011-05-25 00:05:25There's a thread on the Disinformation Deniers forum...
John Cook

john@skepticalscience...
58.166.133.186

One of the sticky threads at the top of the forum, How to add skeptic quotes to the database, explains how to add skeptics and how to add quotes.

2011-05-26 07:07:59DeSmog Blog's Disinformation Database
John Hartz
John Hartz
john.hartz@hotmail...
99.95.221.238

An extensive database of individuals involved in the global warming denial industry.


DeSmogBlog thoroughly investigates the academic and industry backgrounds of those involved in the PR spin campaigns that are confusing the public and stalling action on global warming. If there's anyone or any organization, ( i.e. scientist, self-professed "expert," think tank, industry association, company) that you would like to see researched and reported on DeSmogBlog, please contact us here.


http://www.desmogblog.com/global-warming-denier-database

I do not know how up-to-date DeSmog's list is, but the profiles of each individual are detailed and well researched.  Perhaps Sks should partner with DeSmog Blog on this effort?

 

2011-05-27 20:43:51
PM

morris113@optusnet.com...
122.108.197.111

I have now added the a newly formed organisation run by Case Smit & John Smeed ( they brought Monkton to Aus in 2010) with Alan Jones as their patron, please feel free to add quotes or other skeptics involved with the organisation.

Excerpt from Crikey.com:

Last week, it was duly noted by august journals like the Australian Conservative that something called the ‘Galileo Movement’ had launched a website to dispute the scientific consensus behind climate change.

The two elderly Noosa-based founders John Smeed and Case Smit  were spurred into action by the wildly-successful visit by Lord Christopher Monckton that they co-hosted last year with Gina Rinehart. Their “patron” is Alan Jones, who gave the group some free publicity on 2GB, and there’s also a panel of advisers headed by notables like Andrew Bolt, Ian Plimer, David Flint and Bob Carter.

http://www.crikey.com.au/2011/05/27/pr-outfit-behind-monckton-backers-a-company-beyond-ideology/   

Links to Sceptics:

http://www.skepticalscience.com/admin_skeptic.php?Action=EditForm&TableName=skeptic&UniqueIdentifier=88

http://www.skepticalscience.com/admin_skeptic.php?Action=EditForm&TableName=skeptic&UniqueIdentifier=87

Galileo Movement link:

http://www.galileomovement.com.au/who_we_are.php

 Regards Paul

2011-05-27 21:29:33Galileo movement
John Cook

john@skepticalscience...
121.222.31.47
I know there's an upcoming article on The Conversation website about the Galileo Movement. And I've asked someone who was researching Galileo to write a rebuttal to the Galileoskeptic argument. So if there is a large enough collection of quotes from these two skeptics, we should be able to coordinate our blog post with the other two efforts for maximum impact. Is ere enough material from these two to build a blog post worth of quotes?
2011-06-15 22:53:14Australian Climate Science Coalition
PM

morris113@optusnet.com...
122.108.161.55

I have now added the Australian Climate Science Coalition and some the scientific advisory panel. Their mission is:

  • Seek to improve our knowledge of the science of climate    
  • Encourage open discussion by scientists on the various approaches to this subject.
  • Gather the results from diverse research to inform ourselves and others of progress in understanding climate.
  • Study the implications for people and their environment of the many possible steps taken to adapt to changes in climate.
  • Provide accurate and balanced information to the general public.

Which sounds not so bad until you then read their core principals http://www.auscsc.org.au/our_mission.html.... So much for open discusion.

Names added to date are: William Kininmonth. John McLean, Tom Quirk.

http://www.auscsc.org.au/home.html

So please add any quotes or relevant information that you come across:

http://www.skepticalscience.com/admin_skeptic.php?Action=EditForm&TableName=skeptic&UniqueIdentifier=90

http://www.skepticalscience.com/admin_skeptic.php?Action=EditForm&TableName=skeptic&UniqueIdentifier=92

http://www.skepticalscience.com/admin_skeptic.php?Action=EditForm&TableName=skeptic&UniqueIdentifier=91

2011-06-15 23:25:28
Paul D

chillcast@googlemail...
82.18.130.183

I recently came across Segalstad being used in my local newspaper comments.

http://www.skepticalscience.com/thread.php?t=1862&r=8

After I posted a reply on the newspaper site the discussion deteriated.

2011-06-16 00:31:13Paul D
John Hartz
John Hartz
john.hartz@hotmail...
99.95.221.238

If you are not already doing so, I highly recommend that you scan all of the General Chat blog discussion threads for the names of, and links to, both individual deniers and denier websites.

Keep on truckin'!

2011-06-16 07:44:43
oslo

borchinfolab@gmail...
90.149.33.182

I would add that I know this guy Segalstad from personal experience - have been trying to update an article at the Natural history museum here in Oslo (with no luck so far) on volcanoes which was just plain wrong.

I made some correspondance with him in this regard - he's not very cooperative, I can tell you so much.

2011-06-24 03:44:24SkS overlaps with Wikipedia
John Hartz
John Hartz
john.hartz@hotmail...
98.122.98.161

While searching for information on Bill Gray, I came accross Wikipedia's List of scientists opposing the mainstream scientific assessment of global warming.  

Here's how the Wki list is organized:

For each person or group of persons listed, Wiki provides a relevent quote.

If it has not yet done so, SkS will obviously want to draw information from the Wiki lisitng. SkS could also furnish Wiki with new and updated information for inclusion in its inventory.

2011-06-24 04:06:05
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
84.151.62.211

Someone raised the issue of the Wikipedia's climate-science pages earlier.

Wikipedia is very important, because it is the first place many people shop for information about ANYTHING. Even Google folks have mentioned that they make sure that any query stops in at Wikipedia.

The problem with an open-source system like that is that "skeptics" can participate as well, and it becomes a voting game as to whose point of view predominates. Also, even a victory at one page has to be guarded, since it can be attacked by surprise at any time. (Although there are webpages that have been locked-down at some point: I don't know how that is arranged.)

A motivated and (somewhat) organized group like SkS is ideally suited to working to improve the Wikipedia climate-science articles, except for one small thing: SkS is busy building the SkS website.

Anybody got any good ideas?

2011-06-24 05:00:48nealjking
John Hartz
John Hartz
john.hartz@hotmail...
98.122.98.161

The first question to be asked is:

Why does SlS need to reinvent this particular wheel if Wkipedia (and/or SourceWatch) has already done it? 

If SkS has to have its own version, it would be relatively easy for SkS to assist Wikipedia update its version.

2011-06-24 05:37:00
nealjking

nealjking@gmail...
84.151.62.211

Wikipedia and SkS are not doing the same things.

Wikipedia is attempting to provide an "accepted" version of the situation, including the science. The problem is that climate science genrates strong fears and feelings, so it is hard to create an "accepted" version that is accepted without complaints from the very vocal minority.

SkS is trying to present climate science the way that climate scientists see it - but at a layman's level. SkS is NOT open source, we are definitely trying to present an elite point of view. Also, an important part of SkS's mission is to respond to misconceptions and falsehoods.

There are differences among the SkS team, but they relate most often to disagreements about level, style and emphasis.

But the climate pages of Wikipedia are an ongoing civil war. SkS cannot "easily assist Wikipedia to update" because the AGW-denying participants will wage edit wars. Unless Wikipedia turns over editorial control of the climate pages to SkS (and this did happen with one page, which was turned over to a climatologist whose name I forget), edit wars are always possible.

This is part of the nature of open-source development. Imagine Linux as developed in a climate where half the participants are Microsoft Windows developers, and there is no Linus Torvalds.

2011-06-24 06:29:22nealking
John Hartz
John Hartz
john.hartz@hotmail...
98.122.98.161

My comments are specific to Wikipedia's and SkS's exisitng lists of skeptical scientists -- nothing more, nothing less.

"Nothing ventured, nothing gained."

2011-10-03 23:11:09Angry Anderson now added to skeptics list
PM

morris113@optusnet.com...
122.108.189.232

I have added Angry Anderson and some quotes to the climate skeptics list, please feel free to add more.

For those that do not know the poster boy ( ex lead singer of Rose Tattoo) of the anti carbon tax debate the following links will provide some background:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angry_Anderson

http://angryanderson.com/blog/

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-10-02/angry-anderson-joins-national-party/3205788

2011-10-04 01:22:39PM
John Hartz
John Hartz
john.hartz@hotmail...
98.122.98.161

The article, "Climate change consensus? Just ask the believers" is a veritable smorgasbord of contraian quotes that you could mine.  

2011-10-04 12:54:28
Brian Purdue

bnpurdue@bigpond.net...
121.218.161.146

There needs to be an eye catching heading on SkS Home Page for these quotes and seeing on the second line it says “climate change denial” – I suggest “DENIALGATE”.

Climategate went global with a few ill-chosen words so imagine what this avalanche of denier’s quotes should do. Media love grab words so that’s why GATE is now tacked onto everything conspiratorial.

So why not also head the link page with “QUOTES FROM THE DENIAL CONSPIRATORS”?

2011-10-04 14:33:44John H
PM

morris113@optusnet.com...
203.9.185.243

Hi John H

Thanks for that, i will have a look over the next few days as time permits.