Skeptical Science Forum

This article explains the difficulty in introducing taxes for polluting industries on a national basis. It seems that the ability of governments to force polluters to pay is limited. Without international agreements it is the taxpayers of the country concerned will need to pay the cost, since the industries will threaten to relocate to countries with less restrictions.

A Department of Energy spokesman said: 'Before the end of the year we will announce a package of measures to reduce the impact of Government policy on the cost of electricity for energy intensive industries.'

A group official said it was not clear how the Government would mitigate its green measures. 'We will either be exempted from the taxes or be compensated,' he said.

The irony is that in an attempt to become the world's greenest country the biggest polluters will pay less in tax than 'greener' industries.

Jeremy Nicholson, director of the London-based group, said: 'We have to stay internationally competitive if we're going to attract investment and keep manufacturing jobs in Britain. How can we do that if the Government's climate policies double the cost of industrial electricity? There's nothing green about driving British industry offshore.'

Nicholson said the only way the targets could be achieved would be to introduce rationing or engineer another recession, which inevitably cuts emissions. It is now an open secret in industry and among energy experts that the Government's climate change targets are impossible to achieve without massive changes in energy policy.

Stig Schjolset, at energy analysts Point Carbon, said: 'To meet a target of this scale, the Government would need a massive switch to nuclear and renewables with a national move to biofuels and electric vehicles.'

Read more: http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=534316&in_page_id=2#ixzz1N4B8UCoJ


2011-05-22 18:07:32	Will unilateral taxation of GHGs cause industries to move overseas?
perseus owlsmoor@googlemail... 188.220.205.42	This article explains the difficulty in introducing taxes for polluting industries on a national basis. It seems that the ability of governments to force polluters to pay is limited. Without international agreements it is the taxpayers of the country concerned will need to pay the cost, since the industries will threaten to relocate to countries with less restrictions. A Department of Energy spokesman said: 'Before the end of the year we will announce a package of measures to reduce the impact of Government policy on the cost of electricity for energy intensive industries.' A group official said it was not clear how the Government would mitigate its green measures. 'We will either be exempted from the taxes or be compensated,' he said. The irony is that in an attempt to become the world's greenest country the biggest polluters will pay less in tax than 'greener' industries. Jeremy Nicholson, director of the London-based group, said: 'We have to stay internationally competitive if we're going to attract investment and keep manufacturing jobs in Britain. How can we do that if the Government's climate policies double the cost of industrial electricity? There's nothing green about driving British industry offshore.' Nicholson said the only way the targets could be achieved would be to introduce rationing or engineer another recession, which inevitably cuts emissions. It is now an open secret in industry and among energy experts that the Government's climate change targets are impossible to achieve without massive changes in energy policy. Stig Schjolset, at energy analysts Point Carbon, said: 'To meet a target of this scale, the Government would need a massive switch to nuclear and renewables with a national move to biofuels and electric vehicles.' Read more: http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=534316&in_page_id=2#ixzz1N4B8UCoJ
2011-05-25 18:19:40
perseus owlsmoor@googlemail... 188.220.205.42	Well I'm afraid unless countries agree to place taxes on imported products to allow for the additional carbon, there is no hope. I think Brazil should be threatened with a higher tariff on exports for this. Brazil's Chamber of Deputies have passed a law that eases deforestation rules. The legislation, first enacted in 1934 and subsequently amended in 1965, sets out how many trees farmers can cut down. Regulations currently require that 80% of a landholding in the Amazon remain forest, 20% in other areas. The new bill, which now needs approval from the Senate and President Dilma Rousseff, reduces the amount of land farmers must keep as forest. Other changes include some amnesties for those who have illegally cleared land in the past.
2011-05-25 22:07:50
Rob Painting Rob paintingskeri@vodafone.co... 118.92.112.9	That's just great Perseus, IIRC 21-23% deforestation is a tipping point for the Amazon rainforest, according to the 2010 world bank study on Amazonian die-back.
2011-05-25 22:10:50
Paul D chillcast@googlemail... 82.18.130.183	The issue of corporations moving from one country to another, goes well beyond emissions and carbon taxes. If they moved, that basically highlights the fact that they would be greenwashing and put their old corporate business model before their green policy. Genuine 'green' companies do all they can to manufacture near their markets and charge accordingly. I was watching a programme on BBC last night (Britains Next Big Thing, it was the last of a series of 6) about people creating products to sell in UK shops. One was a seat made from plastic and to be sold in Habitat. The inventor did all he could to manufacture it in the UK, but Habitat insisted the price should be under £100, that meant he would need to have it made in China. But the chap persisted and evetually got Habitat to sell it for £130 which gave hime the margin to manufacture in the UK. The point being is that the retailer and sales end need to change their philosphy and stop pushing prices down. Plus of course the inventor stuck to his guns and challenged the retailer about prices.
2011-05-26 05:55:09	Reverse Offshoring? Or Yet More Evidence of Corporate America's Squeeze on Workers?
John Hartz John Hartz john.hartz@hotmail... 99.95.221.238	is the title of an article about offshoring jobs recently posted (May 24) on Alternet. http://www.alternet.org/story/151074/reverse_offshoring_or_yet_more_evidence_of_corporate_americas_squeeze_on_workers