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2011-04-06 08:45:51 | Woah, Rob has nearly pipped me on the peer-review papers! | ||||||||||||||||||
John Cook john@skepticalscience... 60.231.60.165 |
Just had a quick look at the peer-reviewed paper tally:
Rob is closing fast. Don't suppose anyone else is going to give him a run for his money? | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-06 11:11:41 | Go Rob! | ||||||||||||||||||
dana1981 Dana Nuccitelli dana1981@yahoo... 69.230.97.203 |
Nice, go Rob go! Rob can be peer-review cyborg :-) | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-06 13:07:22 | |||||||||||||||||||
James Wight jameswight@southernphone.com... 112.213.179.164 |
Sorry, John, I've been pretty busy in the last few days. I was never going to catch up to you and Rob though! | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-06 13:22:21 | |||||||||||||||||||
Albatross Julian Brimelow stomatalaperture@gmail... 199.126.232.206 |
I was just perusing the list in the hyperlink that John provided and noted that Poptech is listed as adding 8 papers.....now I feel especially bad for not contributing. Given that I am embarrassingly inept at this kind of stuff, John can you or someone else help. Say I find a paper on the AMS website (just the URL of the abstract), is that the URL that I paste? Also, is there anyway of determining a priori whether or not the paper has already been submitted. Finally, does one have to select a myth? What if the paper does not specifically address any skeptical myth? Sorry for the dumb questions. Congrats to Rob , Ari and James, and too you too of course John....
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2011-04-06 13:39:08 | Tips on submitting peer review papers | ||||||||||||||||||
John Cook john@skepticalscience... 60.231.60.165 |
I'll try to summarise everything you need to know here - if there's any feedback, I'll update this:
Suggested sources for papers: http://agwobserver.wordpress.com/ Here's the tally of how many papers submitted: http://www.skepticalscience.com/stats.php?Action=peerreviewlinks NOTE: The deadline for the contest for the signed book will be either May 15 at the earliest or when The Ville finishes the animation (if after May 15). Don't give up, people, you can still take Rob! Remember, every paper added to the database makes it a more robust resource and makes The Ville's animation more powerful. | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-06 14:05:09 | |||||||||||||||||||
Albatross Julian Brimelow stomatalaperture@gmail... 199.126.232.206 |
Many thanks John....I'll see what I can do. | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-06 15:30:39 | |||||||||||||||||||
Ari Jokimäki arijmaki@yahoo... 192.100.112.210 |
It isn't that long when I was in a clear lead. John and Rob have been busy, I see. Hmm... perhaps I should start adding links again. | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-06 15:34:52 | |||||||||||||||||||
Rob Painting Rob paintingskeri@vodafone.co... 118.93.221.247 |
Brutha, I'm aiming to add 2000 papers minimum!. Unless you have that sort of relentless staying power, just yield now!.
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2011-04-06 15:38:13 | |||||||||||||||||||
Ari Jokimäki arijmaki@yahoo... 192.100.112.210 |
It seems that I should take down my site while the contest is on. :P
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2011-04-06 18:16:20 | Taking down AGWObserver | ||||||||||||||||||
John Cook john@skepticalscience... 60.231.60.165 |
Depends, Rob hasn't revealed his secret source of peer-reviewed goodness. BTW, just added a new paper, then noticed Rob has added 21 papers since I started this thread! Perhaps his nick should be The Accumulator. | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-06 18:43:27 | |||||||||||||||||||
Ari Jokimäki arijmaki@yahoo... 192.100.112.210 |
Well, I have added 74... | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-07 00:47:47 | |||||||||||||||||||
Hoskibui hoskibui@gmail... 194.144.161.27 |
I did a mistake regarding the publishing date (actually twice :) Circumpolar Arctic Tundra Vegetation Change Is Linked to Sea Ice Decline How do I change it? | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-07 01:30:28 | |||||||||||||||||||
Hoskibui hoskibui@gmail... 194.144.161.27 |
Another question. I come across an article from 2005, I can only read the abstract and one of the conclusion in the abstract goes like this: "...A positive and significant correlation between our SST record from the North Icelandic Shelf and reconstructed solar irradiance, together with modeling results, supports the hypothesis that solar forcing is an important constituent of natural climate variability in the northern North Atlantic region." Do I add the paper with a bias of skeptic or neutral? I don´t know if it is truly a skeptic paper. I decided to go for the skeptic arguments - "It's the sun" and "Climate changed before". Is that correct? | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-07 04:26:04 | |||||||||||||||||||
Ari Jokimäki arijmaki@yahoo... 91.154.107.62 |
Ok, I'm at 300 now, time to go to bed. Hurry up, Rob, I'm closing fast. :) | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-07 05:46:33 | |||||||||||||||||||
Rob Painting Rob paintingskeri@vodafone.co... 118.93.4.197 |
You keep at it Ari, I gotta go to work. | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-07 06:43:42 | Great work guys | ||||||||||||||||||
John Cook john@skepticalscience... 60.231.60.165 |
Rob is closing on me fast but Ari is closing on him. Ari, instructions on changing dates is given in the "tips" post earlier in this thread. If in doubt re bias, go neutral. | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-07 06:58:47 | |||||||||||||||||||
Alex C coultera@umich... 67.149.101.148 |
Hoskibui: I had a look through of the paper you're talking about, and I would agree that it is neutral. It doesn't mention anything at all about current AGW and instead focuses on pre-modern data and the Sun's role in natural SST variability around Iceland. I think this last bit, the focus on past *natural* drivers, is what especially sets this apart as being neutral because AGW otherwise deals with a non-natural system (if you will). | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-07 11:01:40 | |||||||||||||||||||
Alex C coultera@umich... 67.149.101.148 |
Wait, you can only see the abstract? Here if that helps. | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-07 11:18:17 | Update on horse race | ||||||||||||||||||
John Cook john@skepticalscience... 60.231.60.165 |
Latest from peer-reviewed paper tally. To think this thread only started 24 hours ago | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-07 11:27:12 | |||||||||||||||||||
Alex C coultera@umich... 67.149.101.148 |
John, I just submitted my first :) I will not likely do as many as Ari or Rob, though I will at the very least try to get ahead of PopTech ;) Edit: Hm, updated submitted link to the *actual* paper, not just the discussion on it. I need to be cautious.... | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-07 12:20:55 | New firefox add-on allows you to enter the date as you submit a paper | ||||||||||||||||||
John Cook john@skepticalscience... 60.231.60.165 |
Very nice update to the Firefox Add-on - they were upgrading some background technical bits & pieces so I asked if they could add a date field as well. It's just in beta-testing mode - works fine for me but they won't submit it to Firefox till it's been tested on a few systems. Anyone who's submitting papers, I strongly recommend you get the new version. To do so, just email me or post here or post a comment on Call for beta testers of the latest SkS Firefox Add-on. I'll then email you the file. BTW, did a few tests with the new add-on to make sure it works okay. So I started at the top of Moth Incarnate's 310+ Genuine Science Papers Supporting Confidence in the AGW theory and Relevant Environmental Concern and moved down the list, looking for papers not yet on the list - submitting enough papers to get me up to 600 papers. I didn't get very far down the list either - most of the papers at the top of the list weren't yet submitted. That's a rich resource! :-) | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-07 12:36:39 | FYI | ||||||||||||||||||
mothincarnate wow.the.moth@gmail... 192.43.227.18 |
I keep an excel spreedsheet of the papers in my list (no links in that however) if it's of any use. Feel free to contact me on wow.the.moth@gmail.com for anything. | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-07 14:32:10 | Request to Moth | ||||||||||||||||||
Daniel Bailey Daniel Bailey yooper49855@hotmail... 97.83.150.37 |
@ moth Do you mind emailing me the spreadsheet? yooper49855@hotmail.com
Thanks! | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-07 17:13:19 | John | ||||||||||||||||||
mothincarnate wow.the.moth@gmail... 192.43.227.18 |
Glad you've found my list useful mate! Still very much a work in progress. BTW Nature have released their new journal: Nature Climate Change - I'm sure it will be another great resource for papers. http://www.nature.com/nclimate/index.html | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-07 17:43:00 | |||||||||||||||||||
Ari Jokimäki arijmaki@yahoo... 192.100.112.210 |
John: "Ari, instructions on changing dates is given in the "tips" post earlier in this thread. If in doubt re bias, go neutral." Thanks, but I think these instructions were for Hoskibui. ;) | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-07 18:25:20 | |||||||||||||||||||
Hoskibui hoskibui@gmail... 194.144.161.27 |
Ari, yeah I guess so :) John - in the instructions you say:
The problem is that I don´t see any Edit link. If anyone can edit the dates for those two articles above it would be much appreciated :) | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-07 19:37:02 | |||||||||||||||||||
Alex C coultera@umich... 67.149.101.148 |
Hoskibui: The edit link should be right after the hyperlink to each paper. I'm not exactly sure why you cannot see it, but I changed the first one for you and will get the second in just a sec... done, both should be fine now. 2007-05-14 for the first, and 2010-08-20 for the second. | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-07 20:22:44 | |||||||||||||||||||
Ari Jokimäki arijmaki@yahoo... 192.100.112.210 |
I think John has to give editing rights before you can edit links. | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-07 21:00:04 | |||||||||||||||||||
Hoskibui hoskibui@gmail... 194.144.161.27 |
Thank you Alex - and yes Ari. That is probable the case, guess I have a limited translation admin rights :) | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-08 00:53:04 | |||||||||||||||||||
Ari Jokimäki arijmaki@yahoo... 91.154.107.62 |
Honk! Honk! Ari - 513 Rob - 512
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2011-04-08 02:12:42 | |||||||||||||||||||
Hoskibui hoskibui@gmail... 194.144.161.27 |
For us average people - the challange is to make it to the top 5 list ;) | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-08 05:41:25 | |||||||||||||||||||
Ari Jokimäki arijmaki@yahoo... 91.154.107.62 |
Well, well... Ari - 605 John - 600 Rob - 512 Woo-hoo! :) | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-08 07:21:26 | Wait a minute | ||||||||||||||||||
John Cook john@skepticalscience... 60.231.60.165 |
I was 601 yesterday. Someone's stealing my papers. Judge!
Ari has appeared like a dark horse out of nowhere. I must admit, when Rob was steadily accumulating, the main intrigue was when he would overtake me but now the question of who will prevail is much more interesting. Of course the real winner is climate science... And The Ville whose animation is getting more kick arse every day :-) | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-08 07:36:23 | judge | ||||||||||||||||||
dana1981 Dana Nuccitelli dana1981@yahoo... 64.129.227.4 |
Judge rules: no foul! This is getting pretty interesting. A three way race, but I'm guessing John won't be in it for much longer :-) | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-08 08:56:55 | Nuh uh! | ||||||||||||||||||
John Cook john@skepticalscience... 60.231.60.165 |
Just edged ahead of Ari. I know there are lots of things I should be working on but sometimes that competitive nature just takes over. I expect I'll fall away from the pack soon but I'll try to keep up as long as possible :-)
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2011-04-08 09:01:22 | |||||||||||||||||||
Albatross Julian Brimelow stomatalaperture@gmail... 199.126.232.206 |
Can 'we' get to 2000+ papers? :) Way to go guys, a truly inspirational and superhuman effort. Is someone using ZVON to data mine the IPCC report? Would that not be a quick way to ID a whack of papers? | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-08 10:00:05 | Zvon! Of course!! | ||||||||||||||||||
John Cook john@skepticalscience... 60.231.60.165 |
That might be Rob's secret weapon. Interesting... BTW, we have 1926 papers so far. | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-08 10:03:50 | |||||||||||||||||||
Albatross Julian Brimelow stomatalaperture@gmail... 199.126.232.206 |
Maybe we can have a big reveal afterwards ;) | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-08 10:23:29 | Well, I tried to get Rob to spill the beans now on his secret technique but he's not budging | ||||||||||||||||||
John Cook john@skepticalscience... 60.231.60.165 |
I tried the whole "do it for the team" argument but no dice. The man is an enigma. If he stays quiet, I'm going to assume it's Zvon.org Guide to IPCC AR4. I mean, check out hundreds of papers on radiative forcing! Hundreds of papers on the cryosphere! And thousands more, as far as the eye can see. Kicking myself that I didn't think of going there before. | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-08 14:51:55 | |||||||||||||||||||
Ari Jokimäki arijmaki@yahoo... 192.100.112.210 |
"Just edged ahead of Ari. I know there are lots of things I should be working on but sometimes that competitive nature just takes over. I expect I'll fall away from the pack soon but I'll try to keep up as long as possible :-)" Sorry, I thought that book contest was to get to the top of the list. Is this a new competition or did I understand wrong? | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-08 16:04:18 | Top of the list | ||||||||||||||||||
John Cook john@skepticalscience... 60.231.60.165 |
Yes, the comp is for whoever has submitted the most papers by either May 15 or when The Ville finished the animation,whichever comes later. Of course I'm not in the competition but when you went past my tally, I just got a little crazy and had to edge ahead again :-) | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-08 16:15:51 | |||||||||||||||||||
Ari Jokimäki arijmaki@yahoo... 192.100.112.210 |
Ok, from reading the competition setup, I didn't understand there was a finishing date for this thing. Go ahead, do your best and go grazy, I have plenty of papers still to come. I won't do another 300 link day, though. ;) | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-08 16:35:13 | No more 300 link days | ||||||||||||||||||
John Cook john@skepticalscience... 60.231.60.165 |
All your competition breaths a sigh of relief at that news :-) BTW, Ari, whenever you used to tweet new papers on @AGWObserver, I'd follow the link then add it to the database. The last couple, I followed the link but found you'd already added them. Dang, one of my sources cut off upstream! | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-08 16:50:34 | |||||||||||||||||||
Ari Jokimäki arijmaki@yahoo... 192.100.112.210 |
I decided not to tell you that I started adding them also, because it takes some of your precious time when you try to add those papers - all means are allowed in a competition. ;) By the way, I'm also adding some new papers that I don't tweet. You know, it's easy to find a lot of papers but it's much harder to get them to fit in those arguments. There's lot of basic research that don't fall under any arguments (for example on precipitation and wind). | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-08 18:20:37 | "it takes some of your precious time when you try to add those papers" | ||||||||||||||||||
John Cook john@skepticalscience... 60.231.60.165 |
You rat! | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-08 18:30:24 | |||||||||||||||||||
Ari Jokimäki arijmaki@yahoo... 192.100.112.210 |
One thing I'm constantly wondering is that should there be a field for author of the paper? I'm currently adding the author and the year of publication to the end of the paper name field. | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-08 18:46:00 | Should Author be in the title or in its own field or something else? | ||||||||||||||||||
John Cook john@skepticalscience... 60.231.60.165 |
I'm open to different alternatives on this. I lean towards making the title solely the title, without the (Author Year) appended at the end. So if you want to have the author, I wouldn't put it in the Firefox Add-on as that window is getting complicated enough - but I could add it to the database so when we edit it on the website, the Author field is available there. But we should really nail this down here and now so there's more consistency. So what should we enter as title?
or
If the first option, do we need to also have an Author field? Is it really that necessary? Can we be bothered editing it for every single paper? Another thing for consistency is what URL should we use? I notice ZVON uses a doi link for all of their papers. Eg - http://dx.doi.org/10.1126/science.280.5364.725 which then redirects to an "official" page. Should we consider using the same system? Is this standard for linking to papers? | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-08 18:53:55 | |||||||||||||||||||
Ari Jokimäki arijmaki@yahoo... 192.100.112.210 |
Papers are quite commonly referred to by their author and year, not so much by their name. Therefore, at least to me, the author and publication year is important. It also might help to distinquish peer-reviewed papers from other documents in the argument link list. Dx.doi.org is commonly used but for example in Science Direct these links don't seem to work for brand new papers (which is rather painful as Science Direct's own URLs are about one kilometer long). Edited to add: I'm not using Firefox Add-on so it makes no difference to me what is in there. | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-08 19:45:40 | |||||||||||||||||||
Alex C coultera@umich... 67.149.101.148 |
>>>Papers are quite commonly referred to by their author and year, not so much by their name. Especially here, where virtually every reference is, e.g., "Hansen 2008." It's not "necessary" per se to have it, though it would facilitate the usage of these papers down the road should any of us choose to use them in rebuttals, blog posts, so on. A separate section would be easiest as that would make pulling the author/year combination out that much simpler. | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-08 21:57:16 | Okay, we'll store authors in the database | ||||||||||||||||||
John Cook john@skepticalscience... 60.231.60.165 |
So do we put the author in the title as Ari has done or have a separate field. A separate field is neater but more work. I could set up a webpage which summarizes all the papers and provides form fields so it's very easy to update papers in batches. | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-08 22:06:41 | |||||||||||||||||||
Ari Jokimäki arijmaki@yahoo... 91.154.107.62 |
Perhaps a possibility for sorting by author, year, and so on to that webpage? | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-09 04:09:06 | Seperate field for author | ||||||||||||||||||
BaerbelW baerbel-for-350@email... 93.231.167.207 |
...will later allow easy access to papers by the same author. So, from that perspective it might be useful. I can help with the "legwork" (or is it "fingerwork"?) to copy/paste the author into the new field. Cheers | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-09 06:32:21 | Had a thought lying in bed this morning | ||||||||||||||||||
John Cook john@skepticalscience... 60.231.60.165 |
What if I add a DOI field to the database. This has 2 purposes. We can use it to generate universal DOI links. But more importantly, and this is the exciting part, it would allow us to import data directly from zvon.org. When I shared all our papers with zvon, he offered to share his data at any time. He has a host ornate data we could grab from his db - authors, journal, categories, etc. So once we enter DOI numbers for each paper, at the click of a button, we bring in all this other cool meta data. Saves us manually entering authors too. Thoughts, comments? | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-10 13:37:25 | |||||||||||||||||||
logicman logicman_alf@yahoo.co... 86.145.234.252 |
Trawling for papers? Didn't someone tell me not to feed the trawls?
Aw! Shucks!
The climatological Bulletin Index is not hot-linked, but is a great source of older climate paper titles and authors names: http://www.cmos.ca/ClimatBullindex.html
Here is a list of 450 papers that are said to be peer-reviewed and are said to support the deniers. Might be worth checking to see if they are genuinely peer-reviewed and to see if they say what the deniers' hearsay says they say. ( Try saying that last bit after a beer or three. ) http://cfact.eu/2009/10/30/450-peer-reviewed-scientific-papers-support-climate-realism/ | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-10 14:41:37 | Aah, Poptech's list... | ||||||||||||||||||
Daniel Bailey Daniel Bailey yooper49855@hotmail... 97.83.150.37 |
Abandon all hope, ye who enter his lair... | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-10 18:45:17 | Poptech | ||||||||||||||||||
John Cook john@skepticalscience... 60.231.60.165 |
I had a conversation with Dana a few weeks back. My thought was we crowdsource going through poptech's list before we publish the peer review animation. But Dana's response was it really wasn't worth the effort. Pop tech is too fringe to be worth that much investment of time. Maybe later if it becomes an issue but it's not necessary before launching the animation. | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-15 05:28:24 | |||||||||||||||||||
Ari Jokimäki arijmaki@yahoo... 91.154.107.62 |
1000! :) | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-15 06:04:11 | |||||||||||||||||||
Rob Painting Rob paintingskeri@vodafone.co... 118.92.102.202 |
Yeah, you're just lucky my local exchange was upgraded, putting me out of action for 3 days. Hmmmmm, sounds like there could be a conspiracy there!. | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-17 07:28:44 | Mining ZVON | ||||||||||||||||||
Glenn Tamblyn glenn@thefoodgallery.com... 121.219.37.86 |
Has anyone contacted ZVON to see if we could get a dump from their database, get the entire IPCC set in one hit? | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-17 10:54:49 | Contacting Zvon | ||||||||||||||||||
John Cook john@skepticalscience... 60.231.60.165 |
Yes, I emailed him about getting a dump of his database. It's a very busy time for him so it may be a while. | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-17 10:55:46 | Oh and congrats Ari :-) | ||||||||||||||||||
John Cook john@skepticalscience... 60.231.60.165 |
That's pretty amazing work! Every paper makes Ville's visualization that much more powerful. | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-17 17:09:59 | Have added my 100th paper! | ||||||||||||||||||
James Wight jameswight@southernphone.com... 112.213.165.240 |
Okay, it’s not quite as impressive as Ari’s 1000, but it’s still a milestone. | ||||||||||||||||||
2011-04-17 18:21:15 | |||||||||||||||||||
Ari Jokimäki arijmaki@yahoo... 91.154.107.62 |
Rob is also advancing quite fast. I have trouble keeping my lead in 200+ papers. |