2011-03-21 10:43:42the challenge of search engine exposure
citizenschallenge
Peter Miesler
citizenschallenge7@gmail...
166.166.209.146

hello, I’ve written, or thought about, a version of this post probably a dozen times concerning as many topics but have refrained  -  The kernel being, how buried and under represented web search engine rebuttal links are to major echo-chamber soundbites.

The thing is that as great a source as SkS is for distributing information it is a go to place.  When someone hits me with Maue, or the Keenan's Fraud Charges, or various ipcc/climategates, etc. soundbites du jour  I go to Google and look up information - most of the time I get presented a pages worth of denialist echo-chamber links, informative, but one sided you know, and very sparse counter sites. 

It’s like there is too weak a response to Hot Topic Labels... soundbites.  And considering how shamelessly denialist resurrect ancient discredited memes, there should be more push back.

Try it.  Most recently I was trying to get some updates on how the Wegman Report investigation was doing, later the Keenan's Fraud Charges.  If I look hard I can find some offsetting information but the exposure seems incredibly one sided.

It’s almost like an engineering problem.  Try some basic searches, as a joe blow consumer would do.  See if you like what people are being presented. 

I guess the point I’m trying to make is most schmucks like me use google a lot, we know only a little about fine tuning searches, and are coming up with an echo-chamber Niagara Falls of professional disinformation dressed up like grassroots.  I’m only different in that I’ve been watching this pathetic game longer than most, and search more diligently.  It’s a problem in need of a solution.
~ ~ ~

PS.  Anyone here know the status, or final take away message from Keenan’s Fraud Charges,
curiously his site goes silent after  2010-02-18   (informath.org/apprise/a5620.htm).

Or how is that Wegman investigation is doing?


thanks,
Peter (CC)

2011-03-21 11:09:47
Daniel Bailey
Daniel Bailey
yooper49855@hotmail...
97.83.150.37

Check w/ Deep Climate for all-things-Wegman:

http://deepclimate.org/2010/11/16/replication-and-due-diligence-wegman-style/

 

As for the search thingy, learn to use both Google Scholar (advanced search here) and Google together (pretty much in that order).  I start with the former & then go to the latter if I can't find an open-source copy of a paper I want.

As far as John Doe/Q. Public: they have little chance of finding something quickly which is other than a propped-up denialist sock puppet, up to 8 times removed.

2011-03-21 20:22:05
Ari Jokimäki

arijmaki@yahoo...
192.100.112.211

"As for the search thingy, learn to use both Google Scholar (advanced search here) and Google together (pretty much in that order). I start with the former & then go to the latter if I can't find an open-source copy of a paper I want."

If that doesn't help, you can also check the homepages of the authors of the paper. Sometimes they have the papers there but Google just doesn't find them.

2011-03-22 14:37:55
citizenschallenge
Peter Miesler
citizenschallenge7@gmail...
96.14.42.41

Google scholar is helpful though again it's in the hands of the operator, and thanks for the deepclimate link, I will read it. {& the google ed}

Actually I've got another http://deepclimate.org/2010/02/08/ M/M in the que right now.

But I think you're missing my point...  {besides fishing for info re: wegman, or Keenan}

In fact, just now, I was searching ~Tom Crowley's attack on McIntyre~ I did fine the above deepclimate link in that search, but it's like 10/1 denialist website hits, most folks scan titles and take what they get.  Serious science looses that cyber battle the way things are now.

Some topics are better than others, but all I'm wanting to point out is there is a real exposure problem - the echo-chamber has spent lordie only knows how much money and brain power in dominating web search engines.  And are winning in that venue.

 

Like I said above, I imagine it may be more an engineering challenge than anything else.  Search engines and how to recognize the going catch phrases and then being able to channel searches for those hot-topic-catch-phrases away from that echo-chamber.

2011-03-22 14:53:22
citizenschallenge
Peter Miesler
citizenschallenge7@gmail...
96.14.42.41

I was at the library today and caught up on some Potholer54 (his LM trilogy) and Greenman3610 YouTube videos.  Great stuff especially for interested joe/julie blows who haven't ever thought about this stuff much.  Easy watching, none of that reading fuss.  They explain all these various topics so excellently, yet do a web search and I never see that stuff pop up.  It's a shame.

Now it seems to me some cyber punk out there ought to be able to figure out how to get some of those videos, and SkS and other real science sites into top rungs for certain topical web searchs (engines)...  or something like that.

I'm just thinking out loud here. . . . . . .     and appreciate you folks putting up with me.

2011-03-22 15:55:03Search engine rankings
John Cook

john@skepticalscience...
121.222.20.55

The key to search engine rankings is to get lots of websites linking to you using the words that you want to rank highly for. For example, just say everyone links to SkS with the words "Sun global warming". Then Google sees all these sites linking to us and figures we must be an authority site on the subject of "sun global warming" and ranks us highly for those searches (incidentally we rank #2 for "sun global warming").

The way I designed SkS at the start was to pack a few keywords in the title and URL. Then my hope was lots of people would link to SkS pages from blogs, forums, comment threads, etc. And as the links built up, SkS would rank higher and higher for those keywords.

It's kind of working that way. My general search engine strategy is to create definitive, authorative rebuttals to common skeptic arguments so people will just naturally link to them. To paraphrase 'Field of Dreams', "build kick-arse content and they will come".

A possible kink is the necessity of using short URLs (eg - http://sks.to/sun) - I *think* the fact that these short URLs instantly redirect to the proper page might mean we still get "google kudos" for anytime someone uses a short URL but I'm not sure.

So if you want to get those YouTube videos ranking highly, the key would be to get people linking directly to them.

2011-03-22 15:56:41Another key to good rankings
John Cook

john@skepticalscience...
121.222.20.55

Scoop everyone. If there's a new development, be the first to post about it. Then everyone links to you and you become the definitive page on google. This has happened with a few SkS blog posts where I blogged something very promptly but I've found it hard to keep up with that. But having a group of SkS authors means speedy responses are more possible.

2011-03-23 05:24:01thinking of the sunny side
citizenschallenge
Peter Miesler
citizenschallenge7@gmail...
166.164.129.151

I should be clear the above is just about the half empty part, limited to that specific web search situation I mentioned.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

The half full part is right here at SkS.  It has developed with incredible speed into The super library.  Want to learn about Antarctic ice dynamics, iris effect, etc. this is the go to place to start the search: clear explanations, links to real papers and further resources, then the following forum is totally first class.  And it’s good that it’s populated with those smart contrarians because it makes for more complete information and education.

For someone like me, who knows a bit, but isn’t too organized etc. its a heaven sent to have this resource, because in my various blog dialogues, I and others can state our opinions and then link right to this authoritative resource to explain and support claims.  I love it and am constantly citing it and linking to it.

I keep waiting for folks to knock me for using it so much, but it seldom happens, when it does, I ask for specific complaints and they got nothing. 

Then it turns into a great launch pad for explaining the difference between a good faith effort to learn about our planet’s dynamics
~ as opposed to agenda driven prosecution, with winning at all costs as the driving force. . .

Also, I do appreciate that over the past couple years the number of excellent web resources, and serious blogs by serious scientists has grown phenomenally. . .   at times it can be overwhelming even. 

~ ~ ~

John good point

"Scoop everyone. If there's a new development, be the first to post about it. Then everyone links to you and you become the definitive page on google. This has happened with a few SkS blog posts where I blogged something very promptly but I've found it hard to keep up with that. But having a group of SkS authors means speedy responses are more possible."

~ ~ ~

I do try to be strategic about my titles and have been surprised at some of the places some of my stuff has shown up.

In closing,  John et al. I am in awe of what you've put together here.

2011-03-23 05:53:32Some useful Skeptical Science links to maximize the research and learning experience
Daniel Bailey
Daniel Bailey
yooper49855@hotmail...
97.83.150.37

http://www.skepticalscience.com/newsarchives.php

http://www.skepticalscience.com/oneliners.php

http://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php?f=taxonomy

http://www.skepticalscience.com/Newcomers-Start-Here.html

http://www.skepticalscience.com/big-picture.html

http://www.skepticalscience.com/resources.php

http://www.skepticalscience.com/thread.php?t=882&r=0

http://www.skepticalscience.com/graphics.php

http://www.skepticalscience.com/The-Scientific-Guide-to-Global-Warming-Skepticism.html

http://zvon.org/eco/ss/