2011-12-23 07:45:37Glaciers have retreated worldwide
MarkR
Mark Richardson
m.t.richardson2@gmail...
89.242.39.173

Link.

 

Hey all, I was looking at papers for summary of 2011 and I found a ton on glaciers... ther's been a lot of movement towards getting 'glacier inventories' up using satellite data and doing so in a coherent manner. And a lot of them compare the new satellite measurements with old ones: photographs, old inventories etc. I started writing it up, and so far I have an absolute brickload of stuff.

 

My 'story' is that scientists are working all over the place, and the conspiracy theorists are cherry picking glaciers (or even making up that they're shrinking).

I'm working on a new laptop which I haven't finished sorting out yet, so I'm having to write this in the cloud and it'll take me a while to finish the formatting.

 

I could use advice on pictures to put in, format, how to make the story more coherent etc.

2011-12-23 07:51:58Ask...and ye shall receive
Daniel Bailey
Daniel Bailey
yooper49855@hotmail...
24.213.18.68

http://www.skepticalscience.com/thread.php?t=3340&r=0

2011-12-23 08:00:25
Rob Painting
Rob
paintingskeri@vodafone.co...
118.93.148.130

I'd bury the denier myth a bit deeper in your post, rather than having it in the 2nd paragraph (aka 'truth sandwich')

For the overall outline maybe you need to point out once again that we don't expect all the glaciers to retreat at once, so yes it's possible to cherry-pick and present a misleading picture. A couple of sentences explaining why retreat is not universal is always handy.

2011-12-23 15:52:19
Agnostic

mikepope_9@hotmail...
118.208.178.1

Mark

As part of the global scene, don’t forget the glaciers of Antarctica.

Pine Island and Thwaites glaciers drain almost 30% of West Anartica.  Both are retreating, Pine Island markedly so.  Combined, they pose a real threat of massive embayment and possible ice sheet collapse.

As a result of the break up of the Larsen and other ice shelves, over 400 glaciers on the West Antarctic “Penninsula” have begun discharging ice into the Southern Ocean at a more rapid rate.

In 2006, the GRACE satellite showed that The West Antarctic Ice Sheet (WAIS) was loosing ice at a rate of 132 gigatonnes per annum and the rate of loss has been increasing over the last 5 years due to increased glacier flows.  They are expected to continue increasing.

The East Antarctic Ice Sheet was shown to be loosing ice at a net rate of some 55 gigatonnes per annum in 2006, a loss which has increased since then.  This is almost entirely due to growing discharge of glaciers.  Lots of material on google.

2011-12-23 20:59:48
MarkR
Mark Richardson
m.t.richardson2@gmail...
89.242.34.60

Daniel, I'm aware of how to add the pictures ;) it's just a lot of effort at the moment whilst I set up the software on my new laptop.

 

 

Agnostic: I planned to read up on papers about S America, and had forgotten about Antarctica (I immediately thought 'ice sheet' rather than glaciers, even though I'd already included Greenland. Sig). I'll take a looky.

2011-12-24 02:19:46Mark R
John Hartz
John Hartz
john.hartz@hotmail...
98.122.98.161

There is no way on God's green earth that you will be able to put all of the information that you are gaterhering into a single summary article. I therefore recommend that you do a rolling series of posts about the status of glaciers in a specific area of the world one area at ta time.

2011-12-24 02:23:28
MarkR
Mark Richardson
m.t.richardson2@gmail...
89.242.33.18

I don't really have time to add much more detail to these posts. I think I'll just split it into 2 parts - reckon that'll work?

 

 

If you'll re-check what I've done so far, I've fixed some formating, added pics and all I still have to do:

- Himalayas (need a working spreadsheet to analyse some of the data from a paper)

- find papers on Andes & Antarctica that were published in 2011 and fit the format (no luck so far)

- write a conclusion.

2011-12-24 02:24:25
MarkR
Mark Richardson
m.t.richardson2@gmail...
89.242.33.18

Rob: I couldn't work out how to bury the myth, unless I move it to the end... but that doesn't quite feel 'right'. Any ideas?

2011-12-24 11:23:47
Rob Painting
Rob
paintingskeri@vodafone.co...
118.92.94.137

MarkR - I'd suggest something like this, continuing on from your sentence:

"The WGMS reports covers over 100 glaciers which are regularly measured by scientists on the ground, whilst there are tens of thousands of glaciers around the globe. It is not expected that every single glacier in the world will be shrinking in a globally uniform manner, but it is reasonable to expect the worldwide trend will show an overwhelmingly strong trend of glacier shrinkage with global warming.

In order to understand why we don't yet expect all glaciers to be melting away, it needs to be appreciated that glaciers only exist in regions where there it is cold enough for snowfall to accumulate into ice over time - this much is surely understood by almost all readers. But individual glaciers exist at varying levels above this threshold of glacier formation. In a small number of cases, at very high elevation for instance, it is still cold enough for the global warming 'signal' to date to have had little effect.

With global warming, the warming atmosphere is able to hold more water vapor, and therefore has the potential to dump more snowfall in colder regions. Each glacier will have a unique set of site-dependent characteristics, but glaciers in these 'outlier' regions would logically be expected to buck the worldwide trend and grow with increased snowfall.

The important distinction here is that a very small number of growing glaciers does not contradict our understanding of the physics of a warming Earth anymore than a flying bird contradicts the laws of gravity. The number of shrinking glaciers vastly outnumbers growing ones (Figure 1) and with continued warming of the planet, the number of shrinking glaciers will only increase in the future."

 

This way the denier myth is not really obvious in the introduction. I know this is mind-numbingly obvious stuff, but when those lying scumbag deniers try to obfuscate matters we have to cut through all the bullshit and make the simple things explicit.

Ordinarily all your stuff about glaciers around the globe would feature up front, but that's not going to work because there's so much of it. I guess that's what you mean by tacking on the denier meme right at the end of the post?

The conclusion will just affirm that the bulk of the world's glaciers are disappearing fast, and that a few growing glaciers doesn't mean science has been turned on its head? 

2011-12-24 21:18:41
MarkR
Mark Richardson
m.t.richardson2@gmail...
2.97.57.224

I think I'll split it into 2 fo' sho' now :P

 

From reading the debunking handbook, I think I will lengthen it like you suggested.

2011-12-25 06:19:10Mark R
John Hartz
John Hartz
john.hartz@hotmail...
98.122.98.161

Before your finalize your draft(s), check out: Melting Glaciers Muck Up Earth’s Gravitational Field published by Scientific American.

You may want to weave some of the points made in the SA article into your article. 

 

2012-01-08 06:13:58
John Hartz
John Hartz
john.hartz@hotmail...
98.122.98.161

Another article about glaciers in South America:

No Time Left to Adapt to Melting Glaciers
By Stephen Leahy  

Water flows from Peru’s Cordillera Blanca, which has the most glaciers of any tropical mountain range in the world, are in a state of permanent decline 20 years sooner than forecasted.

2012-01-09 05:45:06
jg
John Garrett
garrjohn@gmail...
96.229.221.76

I've been doing some glacier updates for klimafakten.de, which is translating a lot of the SKS material. They've asked me to create updates these of these SKS charts: http://www.skepticalscience.com/images/WGMS_glacier_mass_balance.gif
and
http://www.skepticalscience.com/pics/glacierratio.png

Here's the first one. Let me know if you'd like to use it here. It's a bit oversized as is, but I can work on that.

 

 

2012-01-09 10:14:32
Tom Curtis

t.r.curtis@gmail...
112.213.145.36

You may be interested in this TED video:

 

Also of interest are the photos and time lapse videos from the extreme ice survey.

2012-01-11 14:29:13
John Hartz
John Hartz
john.hartz@hotmail...
98.122.98.161

Another recent article, Researchers: Mount Adams' glaciers half gone