2011-12-04 06:19:23Nils-Axel Mörner is Wrong About Sea Level Rise
dana1981
Dana Nuccitelli
dana1981@yahoo...
71.137.110.252

Hopefully the last time we have to refute Morner's BS:

Nils-Axel Mörner is Wrong About Sea Level Rise

2011-12-04 06:36:53
Albatross
Julian Brimelow
stomatalaperture@gmail...
198.53.65.178

Dana,

Thanks for doing this.  Sigh, it is tiresome but necessary.

I would also include an image from the latest Church et al. (2011) paper, which also uses tide gauge data to show the acceleration in sea level rise-- Morner uses tide gauge data, so that would really show him up for cherry picking and distorting and also show the agreement between the tidal gauge data and the satellite data, thereby refuting his claim that the satellite data are fudged.  Some info here.  But I can't recall right now where that nice Church et al. graphic is.  It would also highlight his lie that "[sea levels] stopped rising or maybe even fell a little until 1970, and have remained roughly flat ever since".  

I would also note the hilarity/hypocrisy of him accusing others of lying and engaging in fanicful conspiracies when he is the one doctoring photos! (See the thread at General chat).  Don't show the photo, but maybe just link to it.

Just for interest, also found this at NOAA,

2011-12-04 08:31:25
Rob Painting
Rob
paintingskeri@vodafone.co...
203.173.237.107

Typo in the hyperlink above figure 2 - "sea leve"

I know it's tedious covering thus stuff, but it just goes to show how these zombie arguments can be re-animated and attract a lot of attention.

Nice work. I'll write a rebuttal on Morner and the Maldives. Sea level hasn't changed much there over the decades, due to weakening wind strength and changing ocean circulation, and the cooling of subsurface waters.  I'll be sure to mention "reef woman" and trees and verbal accounts by fishermen, that the "real sea level expert" relies upon.

2011-12-04 08:58:02
dana1981
Dana Nuccitelli
dana1981@yahoo...
71.137.110.252

Sounds good Rob.  A Maldives-specific post/rebuttal would be useful.

Good comments Alby.  I added a Church and White graph, a bit on Morner's photo doctoring, a bit on accelrating sea level rise, and emphasized (and disproved) his 'no rise since 1970' claim.  I also made this the Intermediate rebuttal to 'Sea level is not rising.'

2011-12-04 15:55:38
Albatross
Julian Brimelow
stomatalaperture@gmail...
198.53.65.178

I have not looked fror typos etc.,  but I think you ahve this nailed Dana.  Excellent as always.

2011-12-04 16:56:06
Ari Jokimäki

arijmaki@yahoo...
91.154.111.66

"Figure 1 the average global sea level data whose accuracy Mörner denies:"

Seems to miss a word, "shows" perhaps.

"In fact, not only is global mean sea level rising, but the rise is accelerating."

Instead of presenting as absolute fact, it might be better to say here that "...the rise seems to be accelerating." or "...the rise might even be accelerating."

2011-12-04 17:19:40
Rob Painting
Rob
paintingskeri@vodafone.co...
203.173.243.99

I don't know Ari, there's at least 3 papers which show sea level rise has accelerated. Guess it would be better linking to one of them rather than Tamino's debunking of Houston & Dean, but not much in it.

2011-12-05 00:38:24
Ari Jokimäki

arijmaki@yahoo...
91.154.98.195

At any case, I think that presenting things as absolute facts doesn't belong to science. Every time I see such statements, alarm bells go off in my head, and I automatically consider the text less reliable than before.

2011-12-05 03:18:28
dana1981
Dana Nuccitelli
dana1981@yahoo...
71.137.110.252
But that's just what the data show - the rise is accelerating unless the tide gauge data are somehow wrong.
2011-12-05 06:29:22
Rob Painting
Rob
paintingskeri@vodafone.co...
118.93.11.191

Ari, you must have tinnitus then!

2011-12-05 07:19:34
Ari Jokimäki

arijmaki@yahoo...
91.154.98.195

What data shows is rarely the absolute truth. There are plenty of examples within climate science where data has been wrong in many ways. It's common practise to state these issues with a little bit of uncertainty (and with a good reason, in my opinion). If you don't want to use uncertain terms, then say that according to data SLR accelerates. Oh, and what I said about alarm bells, in my experience I'm not the only one who feels that way. Stating things in uncertain terms increases your credibility (people get a sense of honesty out of your text that way when they see that you are not overstating things).

And yeah, I do have a momentarily tinnitus right now. I have just been in our band practise and we play loud. ;)

2011-12-05 07:48:09
Rob Painting
Rob
paintingskeri@vodafone.co...
118.93.11.191

Ari, should have put the chuckling Mutley smiley at the end of my last comment. 

2011-12-05 16:44:06
Ari Jokimäki

arijmaki@yahoo...
192.100.112.210

Well, of all the smileys, that one is relatively boring... (I see only a red 'x')

2011-12-05 18:39:17
Rob Painting
Rob
paintingskeri@vodafone.co...
118.93.110.26

Yeah? I see a chuckling dog.

2011-12-05 18:53:53
Ari Jokimäki

arijmaki@yahoo...
192.100.112.210

Yes, for some reason it doesn't show up for me. Perhaps my office PC blocks that content for some reason.

2011-12-06 05:39:55
KR

k-ryan@comcast...
216.185.0.2

dana1981 - The "INQUA official position" and "George Monbiot has documented" links are not functional, pointing to "http://skepticalscience.com/\" instead.

2011-12-07 11:58:44
logicman

logicman_alf@yahoo.co...
86.176.64.163

Dana: many thanks for covering this topic.  Excellent!  Belated thumb!

2011-12-07 19:40:04
Ari Jokimäki

arijmaki@yahoo...
192.100.112.210

It seems that this one went ahead without correction. I'll just add that the statement about sea level acceleration being a fact doesn't include any mention of timeframe. Looking at the figure 1 of this post, one can easily argue that SLR has been decelerating since 1990's. So, in addition to the statement being in uncertain base (in my opinion), the statement also might be inaccurate (again, in my opinion).