2011-09-28 05:23:07Graphics for Sea Ice Minimum 2011
Peter Hogarth

peter.hogarth@geoacoustics...
86.142.172.147

All, as I’m not sure anyone has read the longer version… here’s a short one to go with Robs post on 2011 sea ice Graphics for Sea Ice Minimum 2011

2011-09-28 07:10:17
MarkR
Mark Richardson
m.t.richardson2@gmail...
134.225.187.197

Looks good...

 

Having spoken to a few Arctic scientists I'd suggest greater caution with the PIOMAS values. It's a model, and we can't be particularly confident in its values until Cryosat-II data is out.

I'd just be more comfortable if you added an extra sentence pointing out how SSM/I is a satellite that directly measures area & extent whilst PIOMAS is mainly a model and whilst there's no reason to disbelieve the values yet we should wait for more data before stating them with confidence.

2011-09-28 07:46:57
Daniel Bailey
Daniel Bailey
yooper49855@hotmail...
97.83.150.37

Cryosat-2 had issues with its initial beta-release product (ice thicknesses of 1-2 meters thicker than on-the-ice measurements).  The highly mobile ice cap of today with its summer melt ponds (and enormous bottom-melts) act to play hell with its stitching alghorhythms.  Not to mention that the resolution was very coarse (to the point of not being a useful product).

I'll believe it when I see it.

Call me "skeptical".

2011-09-28 08:08:10
Peter Hogarth

peter.hogarth@geoacoustics...
86.142.172.147

Thanks MarkR, I'll clarify PIOMAS is a model, and can put in uncertainties, which are covered in Shweiger 2011.  I'm aware of the criticisms of this particular model on Watts site amongst others, but the thickness data etc is from multiple sources, this model is really an assimilation of known data with given uncertainties.  I've covered in a little more detail in another post further down the list, but this longer version may be a bit OTT for a blog post...

2011-09-28 09:51:08Dense graph
John Cook

john@skepticalscience...
130.102.158.12

I wonder whether you're trying to pack too much into a single graph. Is it crucial that you include PIOMASS and extent in the one graph? It's just all that detail tends to obscure any story you're trying to tell.

2011-09-28 17:15:23
MarkR
Mark Richardson
m.t.richardson2@gmail...
134.225.187.197

Yeah Daniel, I've heard a bit about the Cryosat problems. I chatted to some of the guys and girls working on it and they seemed to think the problems are fixable...

Their description was that it's doing a great job on a good chunk of the ice, but thicker ice, especially near land seems to be being overestimated by ~1.5 metres.

2011-09-29 05:14:53
Peter Hogarth

peter.hogarth@geoacoustics...
86.152.120.201

John, probably true.  I was following a suggestion from last advanced post!  I have attempted to take on board the comments so far, see what you think.

This was meant to lead the true climate geek into the re-written Arctic Ice advanced post where hopefully they will be happy with the level of brand new references, context and detail The Canary in the Coal Mine You may argue there is too much crammed into this also, probably again with justification. Anyway, it's done now!

2011-10-01 04:14:14
Peter Hogarth

peter.hogarth@geoacoustics...
81.153.43.34

I think there is a bit of overlap with some other impending posts also, is there a way of linking them somehow, assuming anyone else thinks that is a good idea?

2011-10-02 11:01:57
dana1981
Dana Nuccitelli
dana1981@yahoo...
69.230.101.55

I'd certainly recommend linking to previously published posts on similar subjects.  Nothing complicated, just a bit of text with a hyperlink.

Are you happy with this one and ready to publish?

2011-10-02 19:34:09
Rob Painting
Rob
paintingskeri@vodafone.co...
118.92.54.246

A thumbs up from me.

2011-10-02 21:42:54
Peter Hogarth

peter.hogarth@geoacoustics...
81.153.43.6

The charts are the message, does this movie format work?

dana 1981, timing, there is overlap with your upcoming post.  Going a little further than the idea of links, do you want to use the graphics, or do you think it is good to have separate posts re-inforcing a message to keep a flow going with a good mix of Sk and S? I have no proprietary feelings about any of my stuff! 

2011-10-03 01:48:39
dana1981
Dana Nuccitelli
dana1981@yahoo...
69.230.101.55
I might normally, but my post is already overloaded with graphics as it is. I might add a link to yours though, which I think is scheduled to be published first.